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An open letter calling for a hard fork of Rails to remove DHH's influence
- minimaxir 1y ago> GitHub issues are disabled on this repo to keep it on-topic and reduce argumentative discussions that go nowhere. Feel free to discuss this in all the usual places though. I get that GitHub Issues for controversial repos tends to invite trolls, but "discuss this in all the usual places" guarantees there will be no traction.
- cocoricamo 1y agoThey just want to silence dissent and keep the discussion running only in their echo chambers.
- srid 1y agoYou can still open PRs, like this one: https://github.com/Plan-Vert/open-letter/pull/32 https://github.com/Plan-Vert/open-letter/pull/32
- minimaxir 1y agosigh
- archagon 1y agoI’m sure they don’t care today, but since these people proudly slap their names on their jeering comments, I imagine that someday their leftist children will read them and feel disgusted at the mocking cruelty. Will the authors feel shame then, I wonder? Or just more anger? The present political climate might make them feel righteous and invincible, but it is only a feeling.
- ilikehurdles 1y ago> their leftist children you are not ready for what's coming
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- archagon 1y agoI think you’ll find yourself sorely disappointed in a decade or two.
- us-merul 1y agoFrom the linked DHH writing: “There's absolutely nothing racist or xenophobic in saying that Denmark is primarily a country for the Danes, Britain primarily a united kingdom for the Brits, and Japan primarily a set of islands for the Japanese.” To clarify, who are the Brits exactly? Do the Irish, Scottish, and Welsh count, and who gets to say that? Also, the Ainu were there before the Japanese.
- techblueberry 1y agoYeah, I do think there are some interesting questions in this area, but the idea that a country is primarily a country for X is hugely problematic and racist in many parts of the world, and has led to countless civil wars. The most obvious one being “Israel is primarily a country for Israelis.” But one of the legacies of colonialism is the Middle East and Africa being carved up in lines that didn’t match the underlying cultural groups.
- annexrichmond 1y agoHow is it racist? Native Brits are anyone who was born there. This is more about culture than race.
- u10 1y agoDHH makes it about race? >That was then. Now, I wouldn't dream of it. London is no longer the city I was infatuated with in the late '90s and early 2000s. Chiefly because it's no longer full of native Brits. In 2000, more than sixty percent of the city were native Brits. By 2024, that had dropped to about a third. A statistic as evident as day when you walk the streets of London now. Unambiguously referring to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_groups_in_London https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_groups_in_London, 2001 census 60% of London was white British, 36% in 2021.
- srid 1y agoThe Wikipedia page lumps together immigrant Asians with native born Asians. cf. "Asian or Asian British" as 20.8%. Same for Blacks. Do we know the actual breakdown?
- ChrisArchitect 1y agoAs earlier, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45365433 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45365433, Title is: Plan Vert - an open letter to the Rails Core team and Ruby community
- cocoricamo 1y agoRidiculous. My bet is it won't go too far. They're already starting with the wrong incentive which is not to improve the thing but to spite someone.
- ilikehurdles 1y agoThese people sound like they teleported straight out of a sociology classroom from 2017 or 2020 and didn’t catch what year it is. This whole puritanical bully culture is completely dead. Get out of your echochambers, and read the room already. If you think rails is worth forking, fork it. If you think it shouldn’t be used, don’t use it. If you can’t be around a diversity of viewpoints, especially opinions that offend you, then get out of the kitchen. It’s so typical of these people to wish everyone else to build the future they believe they deserve. Do the work, or go to hell.
- esharte 1y agoNot everyone lives in America
- archagon 1y agoI doubt you’ve ever set foot in a sociology classroom before. Perhaps a smattering of liberal arts education would help tame your hysteria.
- tempaccount421 1y ago[dead]
- mikl 1y agoThey can just fork Rails right now, no need for dramatic open letters. As for trying to unseat the Rails founder and BDFL, no chance.
- archagon 1y agoForking is a political action that requires buy-in. Hence the letter.
- ilikehurdles 1y agoIs that how they’re coping on bluesky? For a political action, the blowback has been several thousand-fold larger than the support. So far I’ve seen the tailwind creator, shopify ceo, reactjs creator, creator of ladybird browser, writer of pragmatic engineer, many prominent people in the rails community, and so many others speak out against this fork. The letter (more like a resume blacklist) has shown that the Overton window has shifted enough to where people can comfortably and publicly call out obviously dumb nonsense.
- LightBug1 1y agoI say good luck to em ... as they say in their notes: "We do not want to restrict DHH's freedom of speech, he can write and say what he likes. However, free speech is not "freedom from the consequences of that speech", and we as a community are completely free not to associate with people who hold views we find abhorrent." I get it. Basically, "I don't want to associate with assholes". That's not unreasonable.
- dismalaf 1y agoIt's not though. Go to GitHub, press the fork button. Then give people a reason to use your fork over others.
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- srid 1y agoRelated post from DHH: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45369300 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45369300
- laidoffamazon 1y agoWow, that guy is really acting like a Nazi
- ilikehurdles 1y agoHas the person organizing this - a self-proclaimed core contributor to rails - contributed anything more than this one commit in 2012? https://x.com/dkhan/status/1971243835218067754 https://x.com/dkhan/status/1971243835218067754
- LightBug1 1y agoGood luck to em ... as they say in their notes: "We do not want to restrict DHH's freedom of speech, he can write and say what he likes. However, free speech is not "freedom from the consequences of that speech", and we as a community are completely free not to associate with people who hold views we find abhorrent." I get it. Basically, "I don't want to associate with assholes". That's not unreasonable.
- archagon 1y agoWow, I didn’t realize that DHH had gone off the rails* into full-on white nationalism: https://world.hey.com/dhh/as-i-remember-london-e7d38e64 https://world.hey.com/dhh/as-i-remember-london-e7d38e64 It’s fucked how normalized this sort of “Britain/US for Whites” rhetoric has become over the last few years. London is and always will be a global city. And praising Tommy Robinson as some sort of hero surely involves a degree of brain damage.
- daveidol 1y agoHonest question: would it be any different if someone were to write a piece complaining about the cultural identity of, say, Japan being lost due to American or European immigrants/tourists? Also what is your opinion on gentrification?
- archagon 1y agoI don’t see a lot of people talking about Britain losing its cultural identity without also using dehumanizing language to describe the “invaders.” I mean, look at the closer to this article: > You survived the Blitz. Britain will be back. It’s pretty clear that the author thinks that Britain is at war and that the “invaders” are not real Brits, regardless of their legal status. Given the political coalition that DHH seems to proudly support, I assume he would be in favor of “remigration” (forceful expulsion of non-whites) just like Musk and others in these circles. This is all just very faintly disguised racism. FWIW, if someone wrote an article talking about how they respect London’s diversity, and how immigrants bring value to the country, but that the ratio of native to immigrant feels off, I would at least respect that (while disagreeing).
- daveidol 1y agoI agree I think he probably goes too far in that post. Some of what he says at the beginning sounds like an opinion on cultural displacement (perhaps a reasonable discussion), but he veers into more fear-mongering and generalizations about specific groups.