6 ms·

Being Blind to Majority of the Software on the Internet

35 points by cplat 14y ago

cpeterso 14y ago
Open source software also means that you won't be trapped with some dead-end software when the developer goes out of business or changes their business model.
- eckyptang 14y ago
  This is almost true. I've been burned by unmaintained Open Source software as well (which resulted in costly in house maintenance) as well as commercial software disappearing. Keeping all your eggs in one basket is the real problem.
Shank 14y ago
I can agree wholeheartedly. At this point, if software is freeware, I don't see as reason as to why it shouldn't be open source in this day and age. While there are probably numerous reasons, it's certainly created a mindset of suspicion, regardless of how valid that suspicion is.
ChuckMcM 14y ago
I wonder how much of this discrepancy is driven by the motive of the person writing such software. I remember how amazingly crappy the Roxio CD burning software was, mostly it was tool to sell labelling supplies and CDR blanks. Pretty much all the open source I've used was written by someone who really wanted to write it rather than achieve some alternative objective by making it available.
- tluyben2 14y ago
  A lot of the crap software is white label, like you say; something to sell something else. It's like most hardware; if you buy a camera you get free editing software which is white labelled crap usually but at least you can tick the boxes compared to your competitors. Then there is the 'getting rich' thing which is more prevalent than, I think, most people here realize. Currently it's about apps => get rich making apps; there are countless 'internet marketing' ebooks online how you make apps without programming and 'get rich' doing it. This used to be actual printed books 'how to become the next Bill G.', usually with VB/Delphi like 'almost codeless' development. A lot of crap comes out of that unfortunately.
  - cplat 14y ago
    If you go to Google and type in "make your own software", you'll find a site with the same domain as the keyword. And guess what? It's "patent pending." To a lot of buddies of mine who want to learn programming, I keep saying that "writing code" is a very small part of it. But one cannot understand that statement without going the distance.
    - tluyben2 14y ago
      Yeah http://www.makeyourownsoftware.com/ http://www.makeyourownsoftware.com/ this is a very famous one; and he sold a lot of copies (the original developer). What it does is it allows you to make a doc with variables; you 'save an .exe' which you give/sell to clients; when the client starts the application they get a form with those variables to enter and then the doc appears with those variables in it. I have seen those 'apps' on download sites, like 'unique recipe printing application' and such. It doesn't even store the result. Another, more modern, 'no coding software creator' is ; http://www.profittigersystems.com/vbforum/ http://www.profittigersystems.com/vbforum/ which also sold quite well and at least can do a bit more. But from this 'codeless' stuff comes mostly garbage which you can find for sale on eBay and such.
      - minikomi 14y ago
        Wow, sounds cool! I could use something like that that to make these bingo cards I need.
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
patmcguire 14y ago
There are a fair amount of things that are better when they're not free. I remember spending a half hour or so wading through free credit report offers online to find one I could pay fifteen dollars for. Why? In that case no one's doing it for fun do they have to be making money somewhere to pay for the ads. I'll take the devil I know over the devil I don't. With open source you know why it's free - the least altruistic possibility is there's a user whose main motivation is solving the particular issue you have, and that it's open in the hopes that someone can improve it. With freeware, who knows.
- cplat 14y ago
  Yes, there are a lot of kinds of software that are better if they're paid. The main reason being the amount of concentrated research and work that has to be done. And let's not forget copyrighted and patented technologies that can make something "non-free." GIMP is great, but Photoshop is a killer tool. Same goes with Computer Algebra Systems and Electronics tools. These are areas where open source is yet to catch up. However, when it comes to web servers, programming languages, databases, and any great cutting edge technology, open source just rocks. The very building blocks of most of the software today is open source. And that's marvelous.
  - chii 14y ago
    In other words, utility software (that is, software that has a use for a wide variety of applications such as OS, server tools and programming languages) tend to be more and more free - simply because so many people need it, that it quickly turns into a sort of commodity. Specialist software, which includes photoshop, but there are heaps of others like electronic circut design software, and geological survey software, tend to be paid for simply because no one uses it (other than the handful of profrssionals). The cost to make them can't be amortized across millions of its users.
udpheaders 14y ago
I honestly can't think of one proprietray program I've paid for (and I have bought some expensive software) that exceeds the quality or reliability of the free, open source programs I use. Sometimes I feel like I've been duped by every vendor I've paid for software. It sounds terrible to say that, but honestly the open source stuff just blows the commercial stuff away. Alas, open source is just not possible for all software needs; it only covers so much.
- daliusd 14y ago
  I know one you have paid for: OS. If it is Windows or Mac OS X, you have paid for it. If it is Linux you have either paid for it with your time spent for configuring it or by buying more expensive hardware that just work with Linux. If your time is cheap that's OK. If you got lucky with configuration - many people don't.
  - buro9 14y ago
    I stopped worrying about the OS a long time ago. I happened to have purchased Lenovo laptops because I like the keyboards and generally believe that the reason Apple laptops are better than the majority of Windows laptops is because people are willing to spend more on quality hardware. I prefer the industrial design of Richard Sapper to Jonathan Ives so it was a no-brainer. After running Windows for a while and getting bored of using KiTTY for SSH I switched to Linux Mint. I honestly have configured nothing. It all just worked, and installation was less than 10 minutes end-to-end. I know you will say I got lucky, or that I spent more money... but luck didn't come into it and I spent not a penny more than I did for the Windows machine and good industrial design. If you just use the system, it just works. I've had zero pain in my personal computing for a long time now. I don't understand the "Linux costs you time" mantra.
    - chii 14y ago
      > I don't understand the "Linux costs you time" mantra. its because this mantra is FUD that opponants of GNU/linux often use to discredit it. If you spoke to a businessman who doesn't know his microsoft from his unixes, he might be veryeasily convinced that something which would've costed thousands could've been had for free must have some sort of catch. Because physical goods that you can get for free always has some sort of catch (whether its just for adverts, or whether the "free" month of trials automatically becomes a paid month the 2nd its over etc). Most people aren't equpped to deal with software, simply because its so new and recent, and the brain is evolved to deal with the physical and the now.
nhebb 14y ago
My theory is that there is a direct correlation between the quality of free software and the likelihood that developers directly or indirectly use the software for their work. The exception is utilities, but for non-dev business tools, commercial applications tend to be better than free software.
inafield 14y ago
It's things like this which make me want to create a free, opensource, fully featured but well designed version of the various software programs I occasionally need to use. Something without gimmicks, easy to use, doesn't have a super-flashy interface. Audials Tunebite and all the Roxio tools are a mess with all non-standard interface items. Do I click this to get a menu of options or is it a button? I can't tell! Is this element disabled or is it just not activated because my mouse isn't hovering on it? What is crash number 0x0000###? Why did it randomly close? And then there is FileZilla. I like that software and encouraged its use at my employer. I've had ZERO trouble with the server and the client. But the interface could be a bit simpler, and a nice template packaging for corporate installs would be nice. Too many buttons, outdated buttons, and extra options are problematic. Anytime I see someone struggling with some other ftp client I always steer them towards FileZilla (since it is now company policy, thanks to me), but there are some things that could be cleaned up. Unfortunately, I'm not a C programmer and I currently don't have the time or energy. Wife, puppy, condo -- you know the drill.
- inafield 14y ago
  I'm curious about using NME for cross platform programming whenever I do investigate making my own programs.

35 points by cplat 14y ago

Open source software also means that you won't be trapped with some dead-end software when the developer goes out of business or changes their business model.

eckyptang 14y ago
This is almost true. I've been burned by unmaintained Open Source software as well (which resulted in costly in house maintenance) as well as commercial software disappearing. Keeping all your eggs in one basket is the real problem.

Shank 14y ago

I can agree wholeheartedly. At this point, if software is freeware, I don't see as reason as to why it shouldn't be open source in this day and age. While there are probably numerous reasons, it's certainly created a mindset of suspicion, regardless of how valid that suspicion is.

ChuckMcM 14y ago

I wonder how much of this discrepancy is driven by the motive of the person writing such software. I remember how amazingly crappy the Roxio CD burning software was, mostly it was tool to sell labelling supplies and CDR blanks. Pretty much all the open source I've used was written by someone who really wanted to write it rather than achieve some alternative objective by making it available.

tluyben2 14y ago
A lot of the crap software is white label, like you say; something to sell something else. It's like most hardware; if you buy a camera you get free editing software which is white labelled crap usually but at least you can tick the boxes compared to your competitors. Then there is the 'getting rich' thing which is more prevalent than, I think, most people here realize. Currently it's about apps => get rich making apps; there are countless 'internet marketing' ebooks online how you make apps without programming and 'get rich' doing it. This used to be actual printed books 'how to become the next Bill G.', usually with VB/Delphi like 'almost codeless' development. A lot of crap comes out of that unfortunately.
- cplat 14y ago
  If you go to Google and type in "make your own software", you'll find a site with the same domain as the keyword. And guess what? It's "patent pending." To a lot of buddies of mine who want to learn programming, I keep saying that "writing code" is a very small part of it. But one cannot understand that statement without going the distance.
  - tluyben2 14y ago
    Yeah http://www.makeyourownsoftware.com/ http://www.makeyourownsoftware.com/ this is a very famous one; and he sold a lot of copies (the original developer). What it does is it allows you to make a doc with variables; you 'save an .exe' which you give/sell to clients; when the client starts the application they get a form with those variables to enter and then the doc appears with those variables in it. I have seen those 'apps' on download sites, like 'unique recipe printing application' and such. It doesn't even store the result. Another, more modern, 'no coding software creator' is ; http://www.profittigersystems.com/vbforum/ http://www.profittigersystems.com/vbforum/ which also sold quite well and at least can do a bit more. But from this 'codeless' stuff comes mostly garbage which you can find for sale on eBay and such.
    - minikomi 14y ago
      Wow, sounds cool! I could use something like that that to make these bingo cards I need.
deleted 14y ago
[deleted]

patmcguire 14y ago

There are a fair amount of things that are better when they're not free. I remember spending a half hour or so wading through free credit report offers online to find one I could pay fifteen dollars for. Why? In that case no one's doing it for fun do they have to be making money somewhere to pay for the ads. I'll take the devil I know over the devil I don't. With open source you know why it's free - the least altruistic possibility is there's a user whose main motivation is solving the particular issue you have, and that it's open in the hopes that someone can improve it. With freeware, who knows.

cplat 14y ago
Yes, there are a lot of kinds of software that are better if they're paid. The main reason being the amount of concentrated research and work that has to be done. And let's not forget copyrighted and patented technologies that can make something "non-free." GIMP is great, but Photoshop is a killer tool. Same goes with Computer Algebra Systems and Electronics tools. These are areas where open source is yet to catch up. However, when it comes to web servers, programming languages, databases, and any great cutting edge technology, open source just rocks. The very building blocks of most of the software today is open source. And that's marvelous.
- chii 14y ago
  In other words, utility software (that is, software that has a use for a wide variety of applications such as OS, server tools and programming languages) tend to be more and more free - simply because so many people need it, that it quickly turns into a sort of commodity. Specialist software, which includes photoshop, but there are heaps of others like electronic circut design software, and geological survey software, tend to be paid for simply because no one uses it (other than the handful of profrssionals). The cost to make them can't be amortized across millions of its users.

udpheaders 14y ago

I honestly can't think of one proprietray program I've paid for (and I have bought some expensive software) that exceeds the quality or reliability of the free, open source programs I use. Sometimes I feel like I've been duped by every vendor I've paid for software. It sounds terrible to say that, but honestly the open source stuff just blows the commercial stuff away. Alas, open source is just not possible for all software needs; it only covers so much.

daliusd 14y ago
I know one you have paid for: OS. If it is Windows or Mac OS X, you have paid for it. If it is Linux you have either paid for it with your time spent for configuring it or by buying more expensive hardware that just work with Linux. If your time is cheap that's OK. If you got lucky with configuration - many people don't.
- buro9 14y ago
  I stopped worrying about the OS a long time ago. I happened to have purchased Lenovo laptops because I like the keyboards and generally believe that the reason Apple laptops are better than the majority of Windows laptops is because people are willing to spend more on quality hardware. I prefer the industrial design of Richard Sapper to Jonathan Ives so it was a no-brainer. After running Windows for a while and getting bored of using KiTTY for SSH I switched to Linux Mint. I honestly have configured nothing. It all just worked, and installation was less than 10 minutes end-to-end. I know you will say I got lucky, or that I spent more money... but luck didn't come into it and I spent not a penny more than I did for the Windows machine and good industrial design. If you just use the system, it just works. I've had zero pain in my personal computing for a long time now. I don't understand the "Linux costs you time" mantra.
  - chii 14y ago
    > I don't understand the "Linux costs you time" mantra. its because this mantra is FUD that opponants of GNU/linux often use to discredit it. If you spoke to a businessman who doesn't know his microsoft from his unixes, he might be veryeasily convinced that something which would've costed thousands could've been had for free must have some sort of catch. Because physical goods that you can get for free always has some sort of catch (whether its just for adverts, or whether the "free" month of trials automatically becomes a paid month the 2nd its over etc). Most people aren't equpped to deal with software, simply because its so new and recent, and the brain is evolved to deal with the physical and the now.

nhebb 14y ago

My theory is that there is a direct correlation between the quality of free software and the likelihood that developers directly or indirectly use the software for their work. The exception is utilities, but for non-dev business tools, commercial applications tend to be better than free software.

inafield 14y ago

It's things like this which make me want to create a free, opensource, fully featured but well designed version of the various software programs I occasionally need to use. Something without gimmicks, easy to use, doesn't have a super-flashy interface. Audials Tunebite and all the Roxio tools are a mess with all non-standard interface items. Do I click this to get a menu of options or is it a button? I can't tell! Is this element disabled or is it just not activated because my mouse isn't hovering on it? What is crash number 0x0000###? Why did it randomly close? And then there is FileZilla. I like that software and encouraged its use at my employer. I've had ZERO trouble with the server and the client. But the interface could be a bit simpler, and a nice template packaging for corporate installs would be nice. Too many buttons, outdated buttons, and extra options are problematic. Anytime I see someone struggling with some other ftp client I always steer them towards FileZilla (since it is now company policy, thanks to me), but there are some things that could be cleaned up. Unfortunately, I'm not a C programmer and I currently don't have the time or energy. Wife, puppy, condo -- you know the drill.

inafield 14y ago
I'm curious about using NME for cross platform programming whenever I do investigate making my own programs.