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> [Elimination of] Automatic Refunds for Cancellations Does this mean when the passenger cancels or when the airline cancels? If it’s when the passenger choos
by eadmund 1y ago
> [Elimination of] Automatic Refunds for Cancellations
Does this mean when the passenger cancels or when the airline cancels? If it’s when the passenger chooses to cancel, this seems fine and fair: he paid for a flight; he chose not to take it. If it’s the latter, then it seems very unfair.
> Transparency of Fees
This seems patently unfair. Folks should know what they’re going to be paying ahead of time.
> Family Seating Guarantees
On the one hand, this seems fair. If you want to sit together, pay for that privilege. It doesn’t make sense to tax every other passenger for it. OTOH, families are a net benefit to society, so maybe it’s right for everyone else to pitch in a bit. Also, nothing is worse than the folks who didn’t pay up ahead of time who bug one, ‘may we switch seats so we can sit together?’ So perhaps free family seating makes life easier for everyone.
> [Elimination of] Accessibility Protections for Disabled Passengers
I wonder what that actually means. It could be fair (for example, folks too large for one seat purchasing two) or unfair.
- cdrini 1y ago> [Elimination of] Automatic Refunds for Cancellations Airline cancellations. Seeing as they're talking about making a change, I assume it's airline cancellations, since no airline will currently refund you for a passenger cancellation.
- cyral 1y agoIf the flight is delayed by 3 hours, you will get a refund if you cancel. This is great if the delay is long and there is a flight on a competing airline that would let you get out sooner.
- tarentel 1y agoSome will, you just have to pay an extra fee when you buy the ticket. It is ridiculous.
- ghaff 1y agoIt will typically be in the form of a credit but United, for example, does allow cancellations (not sure how far in advance) for no charge.
- cdrini 1y agoI think charging a fee for passenger cancellation insurance is reasonable; the airline takes on a decent amount of risk if a consumer can cancel at any time.
- Forgeties79 1y agoI don’t think anybody’s said so far that it has to be at any time. Up to X number of days out, like most hotels, I think is perfectly reasonable.
- cdrini 1y agoThat would be reasonable, but I think I could take it or leave it. Planes fill up more than hotels would be my guess, so they'd need a buffer window of like a month? At which point the difference between having and not having cancellation protection seems negligible to me.
- Forgeties79 1y agoI think we’re making a lot of assumptions here. For all we know one to two weeks could make a lot of sense. I understand airlines are very feast or famine and often operate on very thin margins, but at this point I’m willing to pay a little more for the experience to not be so categorically and consistently miserable
- cdrini 1y agoI think for me my main gripe with air travel is how hard it is to predict the price and how high the prices are. It takes me like a day of research to book a flight due to how careful I have to be to confirm what luggage I'm allowed/etc. And it's incredibly easy for me to get burned because aggregator sites like Google flights can't tell you eg how much a carry-on would cost, so I have to try to determine if the cheaper flight is _actually_ cheaper, etc etc. And I'm tired of having family have to pay crazy hundred dollar + fees for an extra carry on because the eco light ticket (although the ticket just says eco on it) doesn't actually include a personal item, that's only part of the eco ticket, and since you're at the counter that's going to be $100 fee for you to carry a purse onto the plane. -_- Shout out Condor. Otherwise I find everything ok. The flights are fine -- packed but it is what it is there's high demand. I could do with/without the food if it reduced the price, I can pack my own. But otherwise I find them fine. What makes air travel miserable for you?
- hedora 1y agoSouthwest used to for all tickets, for free. They’re eliminating it because the new CEO is trying to speed-run them out of business.
- atonse 1y agoEven though I’ve flown a dozen or more airlines in my life, I actually felt true loyalty towards Southwest because of their amazing no fee policies. And it was worth playing the “check in quickly cuz there’s no assigned seats” game for all the other benefits. And we’ve flown so many flights as a family due to that. It removed all the stress from the ticket purchasing process. This CEO is a freaking idiot. Is this an excel jockey/MBA a-hole like the kind that ran Boeing and Intel into the ground? What’s wrong with the board that voted this idiot in?
- AlotOfReading 1y agoAn activist investor, Elliot, acquired a significant stake in the company and organized a shareholder revolt about Southwest's margins. Paraphrasing their presentation on the issue [0]: Management Has Historically Ruled Out Industry-Standard Commercial Initiatives [like assigned seating, different seat classes, and checked bag fees] The plan is to make SWA as similar as possible to other airlines to get their numbers to the same place, increasing the value of already owned shares. They don't care if it destroys SWA's customer base because they'll have sold off their stake by then. [0] https://beatofhawaii.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/06/Stronger-Southwest_06102024.pdf https://beatofhawaii.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/06/Stronger...
- atonse 1y agoAmazing. Absolute douchebag investors that ruin everything.
- hedora 1y agoI looked up the difference in numbers. They could have added something like $30-50 to each ticket, blamed inflation, and been done. They used to be the premium choice vs airlines like united, which charge way more for intentionally separate coach seats with no legroom or luggage allowances.
- accrual 1y agoDelta at least supplies a 24 hour grace period to cancel in case one made a mistake. I noticed they don't even charge cards until after this period
- itopaloglu83 1y agoThey want to benefit from passengers who don’t know their rights, because they won’t request a refund. Similar things happened to family members multiple times where their initial flight (overseas) was delayed by 6 hours, they had many issues, and nobody provided information about their rights. I told them about what to ask for and voila, $1100 refund.
- DangitBobby 1y ago> If you want to sit together, pay for that privilege. Agreed. I think they leave too much money on the table. Use of window shades and lavatories could be behind a subscription service as well, with Sky Comfort+ affording you the privilege of multiple lavatory visits for those who have chosen the luxury IBS lifestyle. I'll let you know if I think of anything else those pesky airline passengers take for granted.
- dillydogg 1y agoI think paying for water is a great opportunity. Maybe even the precious Biscoff. Especially for those cross country flights.
- jghn 1y agoWhen I was young there was a discount airline named People Express that actually operated like this. In retrospect I imagine a lot of their nickel & diming would be considered standard these days, but back then it was revolutionary in both good & bad ways.
- LPisGood 1y agoSpirit Airlines does not give free water. They will give you a cup of ice if you ask.
- masklinn 1y agoYou’re way late to that party, Ryanair used to charge crew for water.
- dillydogg 1y agoThe forward thinking market leaders we deserve
- az226 1y ago$99 recline your seat fee
- burkaman 1y agoAutomatic Refunds for Cancellations is referring to when the airline cancels. This is related to a Biden administration rule abandoned by the Trump administration: https://www.nytimes.com/2025/09/05/business/flight-delays-cancellations-compensation.html https://www.nytimes.com/2025/09/05/business/flight-delays-ca....
- chinathrow 1y agoWow that sounds like pure grift.
- kortilla 1y agoThat Biden rule never rolled out according to the article. So what would be changing?
- cls59 1y ago> It doesn’t make sense to tax every other passenger for it. I'd rather pay a monetary tax on my ticket to keep families organized together instead of the discomfort tax of sharing a row with parent+child that has been unexpectedly split up from their partner and is now trying to manage the child's behavior for the duration of the flight without the benefit of teamwork.
- hedora 1y agoThey don’t guarantee both parents are with the kid. They only guarantee that at least one parent is next to each (very young) child. This presumably would mean you’d be feeding a random kid a bottle on long flights. God knows how they’d accommodate breastfeeding.
- the_sleaze_ 1y agoYou are suddenly shaken awake from your restless, fractured sleep. A woman with a look of bright concern implores "Sir your son is watching porn!" "Huh?" She gestures to your right towards the 11 year old boy seated there. "That's not my son"
- 8organicbits 1y agoRemember, children as young as five can fly with out a parent/guardian (in the US, per AA website). So that could happen without change to regulations.
- HWR_14 1y agoThe crew is aware of all the unaccompanied minors on a flight.
- 8organicbits 1y agoIs that a meaningful distinction, though? "Aware of" != "Actively supervising". I guess it's easier to page a flight attendant than find a parent seated elsewhere, but neither can provide active supervision.
- spartas 1y ago> Also, nothing is worse than the folks who didn’t pay up ahead of time who bug one, ‘may we switch seats so we can sit together?’ Some of us parents ask that question for your benefit, not ours. Do you want to sit next to my three-year-old?
- philipwhiuk 1y agoSome of us think you're just being cheap.
- hedora 1y agoI’ve definitely selected adjacent seats in the past, then ended up separated the day of the flight. Even if it’s a couple, it’s probably the airline’s fault. I solved the problem by preferring southwest, but their new CEO is an a*hole, and instead of raising ticket prices $50 a seat is adding assigned seating, removing legroom, charging for bags, adding ticket change fees, etc, etc.
- lotsofpulp 1y agoI avoid southwest because they don’t have assigned seating.
- dboreham 1y agoPost time traveled from when they didn't. But now they do.
- lotsofpulp 1y agoInteresting, I’m sure they didn’t as recently as 4 weeks ago when I tried shopping for flights.
- hedora 1y agoThey’re introducing it in January, but they’re intentionally eliminating all competitive advantages they had vs other airlines between now and then, so it’s going to be a shitshow like delta, united, american, etc. moving forward.
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- hedora 1y agoFamily seating guarantees are pretty crucial. Many airlines have punitive seating algorithms (looking at you, Alaska), or pull crap like moving your seats around and separating you after you select them unless you have status (United used to, at least, since they had a practice of selling non-existing flights, then bin packing planes the day before) so without this you can end up having a breast feeding infant sitting across the plane from its family. In essentially all cases, the kid can be put next to the parent without splitting up another parrty.
- tastyfreeze 1y agoA breast feeding infant doesn't require a seat. Children under 2 can sit on a parent's lap.
- 8organicbits 1y agoConsider twins. My understanding is that a parent may only have one infant in their arms, the other infant needs a seat. Nevertheless, a parent may choose to book a seat for their infant to give themselves extra space. If the airline puts that seat in a different row, it defeats the purpose.
- SoftTalker 1y agoThey may also book a seat so they can use a carseat, which they may be traveling with anwyay, and also because it's safer for the kid to be belted in, and most small kids are used to them and they will fall asleep in them.
- hedora 1y agoYeah; putting your kid on your lap is incredibly unsafe. Moderate turbulence is likely to lead to injuries.
- jjcob 1y ago> If you want to sit together, pay for that privilege This is evil. There is no cost to the airline to put people who booked together next to another. It's seems like Mafia-tactic to seat people apart from another unless they pony up another $500 in upgrades. I refuse to fly with United. I understand that there may not be 10 adjacent seats when flying with a big group, but spreading out a family on purpose just so you are more likely to buy an upgrade is evil. I understand paying for checked luggage because luggage handling costs money. But purposely making the experience worse just so you can charge money for upgrades is evil.
- hedora 1y agoChecked luggage charges are mostly about price discrimination and not cost savings. They also free up the cargo hold so they can transport mail. Speaking of which, did you know the TSA screening area is a farce?
- lumost 1y agoI’ve always wondered if it would be cheaper to just have everyone check their bags and eliminate the overhead bin. I wouldn’t be surprised if airline boarding was sped up by 2-3x this way.
- xur17 1y agoA lot of airlines have started doing this by "gate checking" bags.
- fwip 1y agoI've heard that the boarding process itself is rarely the limiting factor in flights. They're usually waiting on other plane-related things (refueling? Pre-flight checks? I can't recall the details). If it were, they probably wouldn't be doing their 8-group boarding process that takes 20 minutes just to let people start boarding, because gate-time is expensive for them.
- lstodd 1y agoOTOH it would overwhelm baggage reclaim and everyone will get stuck there instead.
- robofanatic 1y ago> If it’s when the passenger chooses to cancel, this seems fine and fair: he paid for a flight; he chose not to take it. It’s fair only if he does it at the last minute OR the seat goes unsold.
- devilbunny 1y agoI ask to switch sometimes, but I always offer them the better seat and aisle-for-aisle or window-for-window. You’re sitting next to a stranger either way and I assure you that you don’t want to be sitting next to my wife when I’m the one carrying much of the gear. I’ll be passing her stuff constantly.
- jghn 1y agoI know way too many parents who take the stance of not bothering to pay for assigned seating, on the assumption that people will move around to accommodate them. As someone who pays for an assigned seat so I can sit where I want, this annoys the crap out of me as now they expect people like me to move. When I point this out, their response is "why should I pay for that?" I agree with the airlines here but if it makes life overall less stressful for all to put families together due to the bad behavior of those parents, I'm fine with it.
- Larrikin 1y agoYou don't have to engage or justify staying in your seat, just say no thank you and end the conversation
- jghn 1y agoHave you never seen a confrontation erupt from this? Or a flight attendant "suggesting" the person being asked to move?
- lotsofpulp 1y agoNo. Is there compensation given, since assigned seating costs more than non?
- jghn 1y agoI've been bumped out of my paid preassigned seat for other reasons and have never received compensation.
- jen20 1y agoDespite flying at least 10-15 times a month on average, I have actually never seen this happen. Reddit suggests that there is an epidemic of it. The actual problem is an epidemic of terminally online dipshits making mountains out of molehills.
- 1y ago
- vonneumannstan 1y ago>On the one hand, this seems fair. If you want to sit together, pay for that privilege. It doesn’t make sense to tax every other passenger for it. OTOH, families are a net benefit to society, so maybe it’s right for everyone else to pitch in a bit. Also, nothing is worse than the folks who didn’t pay up ahead of time who bug one, ‘may we switch seats so we can sit together?’ So perhaps free family seating makes life easier for everyone. I don't understand, are people buying random tickets and hoping to be put together once on the plane? I've literally only bought assigned seats on flights except on Southwest.
- kortilla 1y agoYes, exactly. They want to avoid the upcharge for seat selection so they roll the dice and hope.
- jvvw 1y agoIf you're travelling with young children being seated together isn't a luxury, so it's basically a tax on travelling with children, and a fairly expensive one ($100 easily for a return flight perhaps for four seats?) when you've paid it for all the seats for your family. Though when we had young children, we seriously considered not paying and enjoying having somebody else looking after our four or five year old for the flight :-) Given it is a necessity, I feel it should either be a compulsory extra cost if you have children below a certain age or it should (ideally) be free to be seated together, so that people who do pay for particular seats know that there won't be an unsupervised child allocated to the seat next to them.
- msluyter 1y agoRandom family seating anecdote. A couple of years ago, we were on vacation and my wife had to go home early to tend for a sick pet. My daughter and I also re-arranged our flight to get home early, and ended up in like the D boarding group (on Southwest). So we're getting on the plane and we're almost dead last, and there are very few seats left together anywhere. My 6 yr old daughter was not really emotionally equipped to sit alone at that point. We get about 2/3 of the down and there's now nothing, so I say -- with some desperation -- "If someone would be willing to switch seats so my daughter and I can sit together I'll give you $20." A guy says "I don't want the money but I'll switch." Which sort of shows that if you're not a jerk, and you ask nicely, often people will go out of their way to help you. Families who seem to expect other passengers to move, especially when there's assigned seating, are another story, and deserve the condemnation they get, IMHO.
- _heimdall 1y ago> [Elimination of] Automatic Refunds for Cancellations I believe this is referring to when the airline cancels or meaningfully changes the flight. They already don't guarantee refunds if you cancel.
- lxgr 1y ago> If you want to sit together, pay for that privilege. What privilege? Assigning seats next to each other costs airlines next to nothing (assuming they assign seats in the first place, which almost all of them do).
- kumarsw 1y agoPaying for a group to sit together is really just a roundabout way of charging extra for the middle seat that solo travelers don't want. There's something gross about it, creating a market price for a nonexistent good.
- FireBeyond 1y ago> Also, nothing is worse than the folks who didn’t pay up ahead of time who bug one, ‘may we switch seats so we can sit together?’ So perhaps free family seating makes life easier for everyone. This is my absolute pet hate. Most of the airlines I fly frequently with specifically throw up a dialog box making you acknowledge "I have no seat selection options with this fare", yet every flight, I'll see people doing this stupid seat dance. No, I chose the seat I wanted for a reason.