4 ms·

While these are great on paper, I think the part that needs solving is how to stop them from becoming dens of people who have checked out (voluntarily or not) o

While these are great on paper, I think the part that needs solving is how to stop them from becoming dens of people who have checked out (voluntarily or not) of life/society. Getting a place to live in for $350/mo would be absolutely game changing for low income (and even middle income) people trying to build wealth. The downside though is that these places will invariably turn into social crack houses, rather than the sunny smilely communal life ideals they are sold as.

rjdj377dhabsn 1y ago
Do we really want the government to dictate how people live their lives? If someone wants to waste his life away, sitting around doing drugs, that should be up to him.
- slt2021 1y ago
  [dead]
red_rech 1y ago
> The downside though is that these places will invariably turn into social crack houses, rather than the sunny smilely communal life ideals they are sold as. Ok, get rid of them, now the streets are social crack houses? What are we to do now? Perhaps the woodchipper?
- reactordev 1y ago
  The Purge
- gryfft 1y ago
  You certainly don't want yucky undesirables to have shelter when homeless, to be fed when hungry, to be clothed when naked? Just because they happen to be the same species as you? Just because their blood is the same color as yours? Just because that's the moral teaching of every dominant religious system? No, some people should be homeless, and suffer, and be made to bear humiliation. It is self evident that the suffering of the marginalized is a social good which the people must not be deprived of.
  - wat10000 1y ago
    You see, the only reason people are homless or otherwise down on their luck is because we make it so darned comfortable for them. If we can just make it sufficiently unpleasant, then they'll stop doing it.
    - weakfish 1y ago
      Is this sarcasm? This reads as incredibly malicious if not
      - wat10000 1y ago
        It is coming from me. It is a sentiment I see a lot of people sincerely espousing, unfortunately. (It's not stated quite so blatantly, but not far off.)
    - ReptileMan 1y ago
      Definitely true in the places with harsh winters.
    - xnx 1y ago
      Some people are just too lazy to be born in the right circumstances (geography, economy, parentage, skin color, physical ability, etc.) /s
- zuminator 1y ago
  Well there's your answer right there. Communal living is discouraged because our capitalist society uses the fear of homelessness to force people onto the work treadmill. Either join the rat race or it's the streets for you. And now living rough is being made illegal as well, so it's labor camps.
  - AlexandrB 1y ago
    > capitalist society uses the fear of homelessness to force people onto the work treadmill If we were living in pre-agrarian society you would either be on the "work treadmill" building/maintaining shelter and finding food or you would starve or freeze to death. Capitalism has nothing to do with it. Do you think animals spend most of their time looking for food because they're also operating under the capitalist system?
    - gryfft 1y ago
      > If we were living in pre-agrarian society you would either be on the "work treadmill" building/maintaining shelter and finding food or you would starve or freeze to death. It is my understanding that anthropology has shown that the people of prehistoric times cared for their sick, elderly, and infirm. > "From the very earliest times, we can see evidence that people who were unable to function were helped, looked after and given what care was available." https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2020/06/17/878896381/ancient-bones-offer-clues-to-how-long-ago-humans-cared-for-the-vulnerable https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2020/06/17/8788963...
      - AlexandrB 1y ago
        These were almost certainly family members, not strangers. Obviously you would care after your child/father/grandmother if they were infirm regardless of economic system. And even that is far from universal. Indigenous Amazon societies still practice infanticide[1] in times of scarcity or for infants that are infirm. [1] https://www.scielo.br/j/csp/a/kPn9cHW4RWKz94CjxDBw3ds/?format=html&lang=en https://www.scielo.br/j/csp/a/kPn9cHW4RWKz94CjxDBw3ds/?forma...
- AlexandrB 1y ago
  I think everyone in this thread should read https://freddiedeboer.substack.com/p/you-call-that-compassion https://freddiedeboer.substack.com/p/you-call-that-compassio... Addiction requires some level of coercive intervention to address. No one wants to admit this point so we keep arguing about whether we want to leave addicts to die in the street or in a crowded crack den. Neither really solves the problem.
  - emseetech 1y ago
    Is it bleeding hearts preventing this or the unwillingness to properly fund it?
    - AlexandrB 1y ago
      I'm guessing both. I think a lot of people get the ick about forcibly incarcerating people who are addicts or suffering from severe mental health issues[1]. I know I did when I was younger. We've moved to a more voluntary model of "mental health outreach" and the like. But this requires folks with compromised thought processes to regularly make a rational decision to seek help. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deinstitutionalisation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deinstitutionalisation
      - zozbot234 1y ago
        There's a huge difference between "suffering from severe mental issues" (which is very hard to establish an objective standard for) and engaging in outright anti-social, criminal behavior. The latter can most certainly result in incarceration or court-ordered treatment, and no one sensible will "get the ick" about that.
      - ashtakeaway 1y ago
        There is also deindividuation which occurs in homelessness. You are rarely referred to by your own name and ignored or practically invisible by everyone else except by those providing services. I was homeless for 6 years so this was apparent in a lot of that society. In red states there was a third cohort: those disowned by families for having a differing view than them so they got kicked out. It takes a minimum of one year to recover from the effects of homelessness, mentally. That process only begins after they are rehoused.
lesuorac 1y ago
Is it any better that somebody checks out within a SRO than a tent? I have to imagine that at 10% of the rental market there had to be tons of drugs being done within SROs. But also that a lot of drugs were being done in the other 90% of the rental market ...
strgrd 1y ago
"Cheap rent sounds good on paper... but why would you work?"
scandox 1y ago
I mean that just sounds like bollocks to me. I house shared for years and it was just perfect. If I was going to become a crack addict just because I got cheap accommodation I mean what chance have I got?
762236 1y ago
The Bay Area has lots of these places, running under the radar, which are not turning into anything bad, as they are occupied by young people working at startups.
mig4ng 1y ago
I have been sharing house with a roommate for years now (in Portugal), and I prefer it to living alone. Even with a girlfriend, I highly prefer to live in a house with more people. I come from a "big" family, and I am used to movement where I live. And living alone or just with one person, makes my energy go down. Now that I plan on moving to Paraguay, I am looking for co-living options or someone to rent place with. Different people have different preferred ways of living. For me, it's cheaper, and I am happier, when I share place with other people. Also, you get to learn from others, have people to talk with, at the expense of a bit of privacy. But depending on the roommates you choose the privacy thing is usually not an issue.
- Workaccount2 1y ago
  Living with roommates is not the same thing as an SRO. While both meet the strict definition of "living with roommates", one of these situations you get pick who you live with (or at least ideologically aligned), in the other you don't.
- buildsjets 1y ago
  Two friends sharing a lovely home is not the same thing as twenty random crackheads living in a trap house.
reactordev 1y ago
I thought the entire goal was to get to a point where you're checked out? Retirement. The issue is income hasn't kept up with inflation and definitely not the rents required for older gen folks to survive on their own. Perspective: My mother owned a home in a wealthy area of Virginia, her mortgage was $1200/mo for 30 years. When she sold it (for double what she paid for it) she thought she was rich. Then came the assisted living rent bill of $8k/mo. She realized she only has a few years to live on her life savings. It's a generational rug pull and kicking the ladder out from those climbing. It's going to end very badly.
- sokoloff 1y ago
  If she only doubled her money in 30 years, that’s only 2.3% CAGR, probably less than general inflation over that time period. Most housing, especially in wealthy areas, has appreciated significantly more rapidly.
  - reactordev 1y ago
    I don't disagree but when my father passed, she took out some equity to pay his medical bills as well when she inherited the house. Life has a way of getting in the way.
    - Paradigm2020 1y ago
      Before the money is up... Move to thailand / malaysia / vietnam / mexico ? Do research online ? Not sure where you / other siblings are based but find a place w good and cheap flight connections. Changing sucks. Being forced to change even worse so maybe talk about options (Or even a cheaper place in the usa) Good luck
      - reactordev 1y ago
        Dude, she’s in her 80s and needs the assistance.
MangoToupe 1y ago
[flagged]
avemg 1y ago
I think it's well and good to try to address that problem too, but it does seem like a different, although not entirely unrelated issue. What you're describing is already happening now, it's just happening in public spaces (transit stations, parks, etc) where it affects everyone.
Nasrudith 1y ago
That "problem" seems to rest within you and not them. Ugly patternalism combined with classism and a view of work more appropriate to an aristocrat towards their serfs than an inhabitant of a free country.
selimthegrim 1y ago
My cousin helps run one of these as an intentional community for homeless people in New Orleans and it is not at all a social crack house.
fragmede 1y ago
hahahaha. A room in a house is going to cost you $1,800/month in San Francisco.

rjdj377dhabsn 1y ago

Do we really want the government to dictate how people live their lives? If someone wants to waste his life away, sitting around doing drugs, that should be up to him.

slt2021 1y ago
[dead]

red_rech 1y ago

> The downside though is that these places will invariably turn into social crack houses, rather than the sunny smilely communal life ideals they are sold as. Ok, get rid of them, now the streets are social crack houses? What are we to do now? Perhaps the woodchipper?

reactordev 1y ago
The Purge
gryfft 1y ago
You certainly don't want yucky undesirables to have shelter when homeless, to be fed when hungry, to be clothed when naked? Just because they happen to be the same species as you? Just because their blood is the same color as yours? Just because that's the moral teaching of every dominant religious system? No, some people should be homeless, and suffer, and be made to bear humiliation. It is self evident that the suffering of the marginalized is a social good which the people must not be deprived of.
- wat10000 1y ago
  You see, the only reason people are homless or otherwise down on their luck is because we make it so darned comfortable for them. If we can just make it sufficiently unpleasant, then they'll stop doing it.
  - weakfish 1y ago
    Is this sarcasm? This reads as incredibly malicious if not
    - wat10000 1y ago
      It is coming from me. It is a sentiment I see a lot of people sincerely espousing, unfortunately. (It's not stated quite so blatantly, but not far off.)
  - ReptileMan 1y ago
    Definitely true in the places with harsh winters.
  - xnx 1y ago
    Some people are just too lazy to be born in the right circumstances (geography, economy, parentage, skin color, physical ability, etc.) /s
zuminator 1y ago
Well there's your answer right there. Communal living is discouraged because our capitalist society uses the fear of homelessness to force people onto the work treadmill. Either join the rat race or it's the streets for you. And now living rough is being made illegal as well, so it's labor camps.
- AlexandrB 1y ago
  > capitalist society uses the fear of homelessness to force people onto the work treadmill If we were living in pre-agrarian society you would either be on the "work treadmill" building/maintaining shelter and finding food or you would starve or freeze to death. Capitalism has nothing to do with it. Do you think animals spend most of their time looking for food because they're also operating under the capitalist system?
  - gryfft 1y ago
    > If we were living in pre-agrarian society you would either be on the "work treadmill" building/maintaining shelter and finding food or you would starve or freeze to death. It is my understanding that anthropology has shown that the people of prehistoric times cared for their sick, elderly, and infirm. > "From the very earliest times, we can see evidence that people who were unable to function were helped, looked after and given what care was available." https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2020/06/17/878896381/ancient-bones-offer-clues-to-how-long-ago-humans-cared-for-the-vulnerable https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2020/06/17/8788963...
    - AlexandrB 1y ago
      These were almost certainly family members, not strangers. Obviously you would care after your child/father/grandmother if they were infirm regardless of economic system. And even that is far from universal. Indigenous Amazon societies still practice infanticide[1] in times of scarcity or for infants that are infirm. [1] https://www.scielo.br/j/csp/a/kPn9cHW4RWKz94CjxDBw3ds/?format=html&lang=en https://www.scielo.br/j/csp/a/kPn9cHW4RWKz94CjxDBw3ds/?forma...
AlexandrB 1y ago
I think everyone in this thread should read https://freddiedeboer.substack.com/p/you-call-that-compassion https://freddiedeboer.substack.com/p/you-call-that-compassio... Addiction requires some level of coercive intervention to address. No one wants to admit this point so we keep arguing about whether we want to leave addicts to die in the street or in a crowded crack den. Neither really solves the problem.
- emseetech 1y ago
  Is it bleeding hearts preventing this or the unwillingness to properly fund it?
  - AlexandrB 1y ago
    I'm guessing both. I think a lot of people get the ick about forcibly incarcerating people who are addicts or suffering from severe mental health issues[1]. I know I did when I was younger. We've moved to a more voluntary model of "mental health outreach" and the like. But this requires folks with compromised thought processes to regularly make a rational decision to seek help. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deinstitutionalisation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deinstitutionalisation
    - zozbot234 1y ago
      There's a huge difference between "suffering from severe mental issues" (which is very hard to establish an objective standard for) and engaging in outright anti-social, criminal behavior. The latter can most certainly result in incarceration or court-ordered treatment, and no one sensible will "get the ick" about that.
    - ashtakeaway 1y ago
      There is also deindividuation which occurs in homelessness. You are rarely referred to by your own name and ignored or practically invisible by everyone else except by those providing services. I was homeless for 6 years so this was apparent in a lot of that society. In red states there was a third cohort: those disowned by families for having a differing view than them so they got kicked out. It takes a minimum of one year to recover from the effects of homelessness, mentally. That process only begins after they are rehoused.

lesuorac 1y ago

Is it any better that somebody checks out within a SRO than a tent? I have to imagine that at 10% of the rental market there had to be tons of drugs being done within SROs. But also that a lot of drugs were being done in the other 90% of the rental market ...

strgrd 1y ago

"Cheap rent sounds good on paper... but why would you work?"

scandox 1y ago

I mean that just sounds like bollocks to me. I house shared for years and it was just perfect. If I was going to become a crack addict just because I got cheap accommodation I mean what chance have I got?

762236 1y ago

The Bay Area has lots of these places, running under the radar, which are not turning into anything bad, as they are occupied by young people working at startups.

mig4ng 1y ago

I have been sharing house with a roommate for years now (in Portugal), and I prefer it to living alone. Even with a girlfriend, I highly prefer to live in a house with more people. I come from a "big" family, and I am used to movement where I live. And living alone or just with one person, makes my energy go down. Now that I plan on moving to Paraguay, I am looking for co-living options or someone to rent place with. Different people have different preferred ways of living. For me, it's cheaper, and I am happier, when I share place with other people. Also, you get to learn from others, have people to talk with, at the expense of a bit of privacy. But depending on the roommates you choose the privacy thing is usually not an issue.

Workaccount2 1y ago
Living with roommates is not the same thing as an SRO. While both meet the strict definition of "living with roommates", one of these situations you get pick who you live with (or at least ideologically aligned), in the other you don't.
buildsjets 1y ago
Two friends sharing a lovely home is not the same thing as twenty random crackheads living in a trap house.

reactordev 1y ago

I thought the entire goal was to get to a point where you're checked out? Retirement. The issue is income hasn't kept up with inflation and definitely not the rents required for older gen folks to survive on their own. Perspective: My mother owned a home in a wealthy area of Virginia, her mortgage was $1200/mo for 30 years. When she sold it (for double what she paid for it) she thought she was rich. Then came the assisted living rent bill of $8k/mo. She realized she only has a few years to live on her life savings. It's a generational rug pull and kicking the ladder out from those climbing. It's going to end very badly.

sokoloff 1y ago
If she only doubled her money in 30 years, that’s only 2.3% CAGR, probably less than general inflation over that time period. Most housing, especially in wealthy areas, has appreciated significantly more rapidly.
- reactordev 1y ago
  I don't disagree but when my father passed, she took out some equity to pay his medical bills as well when she inherited the house. Life has a way of getting in the way.
  - Paradigm2020 1y ago
    Before the money is up... Move to thailand / malaysia / vietnam / mexico ? Do research online ? Not sure where you / other siblings are based but find a place w good and cheap flight connections. Changing sucks. Being forced to change even worse so maybe talk about options (Or even a cheaper place in the usa) Good luck
    - reactordev 1y ago
      Dude, she’s in her 80s and needs the assistance.

MangoToupe 1y ago

[flagged]

avemg 1y ago

I think it's well and good to try to address that problem too, but it does seem like a different, although not entirely unrelated issue. What you're describing is already happening now, it's just happening in public spaces (transit stations, parks, etc) where it affects everyone.

Nasrudith 1y ago

That "problem" seems to rest within you and not them. Ugly patternalism combined with classism and a view of work more appropriate to an aristocrat towards their serfs than an inhabitant of a free country.

selimthegrim 1y ago

My cousin helps run one of these as an intentional community for homeless people in New Orleans and it is not at all a social crack house.

fragmede 1y ago

hahahaha. A room in a house is going to cost you $1,800/month in San Francisco.