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What are your relatives doing? If they're like 95% of computer users, they use them to check their email, their FB/IG/etc and browse the web. A Chromebook woul

What are your relatives doing? If they're like 95% of computer users, they use them to check their email, their FB/IG/etc and browse the web. A Chromebook would suit their needs, but in my experience, so would a modern Linux installation + a browser. The biggest friction in my experience is UI differences, but that is solved by just mimicking Windows/macOS UI in KDE. Put buttons and components where they expect to find them and it seems to just work, in my experience.

hbn 1y ago
You can also just tell them to get an M2 MacBook Air for $800. You'll have to do near zero troubleshooting, it'll last them the better part of a decade, they get unmatched battery life and hardware reliability, and if they do run into issues they'll have top-of-its-class support from Apple. I know Linux guys don't mind putting up with the Linux experience but if your family is trusting you as "the techie," you'd be doing them a huge favor by not making them put up with that stuff.
- heavyset_go 1y ago
  > You can also just tell them to get an M2 MacBook Air for $800 Yes, you will find that most material problems can be solved by buying more stuff. If they wanted to buy a new laptop, they would have done that. > You'll have to do near zero troubleshooting That's the case now. Meanwhile, with the Macs they use, I have to explain that there's a difference between Intel and ARM Macs, that no, their software won't work in MACOS_VERSION because Apple deprecated some API, and no, you can't upgrade to MACOS_VERSION+1 to use something that works, no the hardware they've been using for years won't work because the driver for it is no longer compatible with their Mac/macOS version, the simple thing they want to do actually requires $30 paid software to do, I can't help you when Apple sold you a small hard drive at a premium and macOS takes up half of it, etc. > I know Linux guys don't mind putting up with the Linux experience but if your family is trusting you as "the techie," you'd be doing them a huge favor by not making them put up with that stuff Yeah, having a fast computer that just works must be tough lol
  - someguyiguess 1y ago
    I'm a huge Linux fan but "it just works" is not a phrase I'd use in the same paragraph as Linux. Try explaining to your grandma that she needs to open a terminal and run "sudo apt update && sudo apt upgrade"
    - Kbelicius 1y ago
      It seems that you haven't used it in a long time then. You don't need to go the terminal to update the system. Mostly you get a message that there are updates for the system. You click it, click update all and your done.
    - heavyset_go 1y ago
      Why would grandma do that when there's been an update manager service GUI for two decades? Either set it to do upgrades in the background automatically or tell her to hit "Install updates" when she sees a notification about it. Ideally you'd click the checkmark that enables the former. The great thing about Debian and Ubuntu LTS releases is that they're rock solid and nothing changes for like a decade or however long they're kept on life support.
  - hbn 1y ago
    > I have to explain that there's a difference between Intel and ARM Macs No you don't? Why not tell your grandma about PowerPC and Motorola 68000 Macs too while you're giving her pointless information about CPUs Apple used in the past. We're half a decade into the Apple Silicon transition. Intel Macs are not relevant to anyone except people who purchased a Mac within a couple years before the M1. > no, their software won't work in MACOS_VERSION because Apple deprecated some API, and no, you can't upgrade to MACOS_VERSION+1 to use something that works, no the hardware they've been using for years won't work because the driver for it is no longer compatible with their Mac/macOS version, the simple thing they want to do actually requires $30 paid software to do, I can't help you when Apple sold you a small hard drive at a premium and macOS takes up half of it, etc. I... can't even imagine what scenario you could possibly be running into any of this so I don't know how to argue against it. I was already speaking on the scenario you brought up where this is someone that is gonna be living 95% in their browser. I don't know what weird proprietary software non-techie users are needing that's apparently not compatible with new Macs. Anything beyond web browsing - e.g. word processing, light photo editing, dealing with PDFs, etc - can be done with very high-quality, free software baked right into macOS. You describe using a Mac like the black and white "before" footage from an infomercial showing that previously the only way to cut a tomato is smushing it with the side of a dull knife. If a Mac is too difficult for someone, Linux is not the solution.

hbn 1y ago

You can also just tell them to get an M2 MacBook Air for $800. You'll have to do near zero troubleshooting, it'll last them the better part of a decade, they get unmatched battery life and hardware reliability, and if they do run into issues they'll have top-of-its-class support from Apple. I know Linux guys don't mind putting up with the Linux experience but if your family is trusting you as "the techie," you'd be doing them a huge favor by not making them put up with that stuff.

heavyset_go 1y ago
> You can also just tell them to get an M2 MacBook Air for $800 Yes, you will find that most material problems can be solved by buying more stuff. If they wanted to buy a new laptop, they would have done that. > You'll have to do near zero troubleshooting That's the case now. Meanwhile, with the Macs they use, I have to explain that there's a difference between Intel and ARM Macs, that no, their software won't work in MACOS_VERSION because Apple deprecated some API, and no, you can't upgrade to MACOS_VERSION+1 to use something that works, no the hardware they've been using for years won't work because the driver for it is no longer compatible with their Mac/macOS version, the simple thing they want to do actually requires $30 paid software to do, I can't help you when Apple sold you a small hard drive at a premium and macOS takes up half of it, etc. > I know Linux guys don't mind putting up with the Linux experience but if your family is trusting you as "the techie," you'd be doing them a huge favor by not making them put up with that stuff Yeah, having a fast computer that just works must be tough lol
- someguyiguess 1y ago
  I'm a huge Linux fan but "it just works" is not a phrase I'd use in the same paragraph as Linux. Try explaining to your grandma that she needs to open a terminal and run "sudo apt update && sudo apt upgrade"
  - Kbelicius 1y ago
    It seems that you haven't used it in a long time then. You don't need to go the terminal to update the system. Mostly you get a message that there are updates for the system. You click it, click update all and your done.
  - heavyset_go 1y ago
    Why would grandma do that when there's been an update manager service GUI for two decades? Either set it to do upgrades in the background automatically or tell her to hit "Install updates" when she sees a notification about it. Ideally you'd click the checkmark that enables the former. The great thing about Debian and Ubuntu LTS releases is that they're rock solid and nothing changes for like a decade or however long they're kept on life support.
- hbn 1y ago
  > I have to explain that there's a difference between Intel and ARM Macs No you don't? Why not tell your grandma about PowerPC and Motorola 68000 Macs too while you're giving her pointless information about CPUs Apple used in the past. We're half a decade into the Apple Silicon transition. Intel Macs are not relevant to anyone except people who purchased a Mac within a couple years before the M1. > no, their software won't work in MACOS_VERSION because Apple deprecated some API, and no, you can't upgrade to MACOS_VERSION+1 to use something that works, no the hardware they've been using for years won't work because the driver for it is no longer compatible with their Mac/macOS version, the simple thing they want to do actually requires $30 paid software to do, I can't help you when Apple sold you a small hard drive at a premium and macOS takes up half of it, etc. I... can't even imagine what scenario you could possibly be running into any of this so I don't know how to argue against it. I was already speaking on the scenario you brought up where this is someone that is gonna be living 95% in their browser. I don't know what weird proprietary software non-techie users are needing that's apparently not compatible with new Macs. Anything beyond web browsing - e.g. word processing, light photo editing, dealing with PDFs, etc - can be done with very high-quality, free software baked right into macOS. You describe using a Mac like the black and white "before" footage from an infomercial showing that previously the only way to cut a tomato is smushing it with the side of a dull knife. If a Mac is too difficult for someone, Linux is not the solution.