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On the one hand, prisoners being coerced to work is payment for their crimes. On the other hand, that job would have gone to someone else at market rates. This
by cl0ckt0wer 1y ago
On the one hand, prisoners being coerced to work is payment for their crimes. On the other hand, that job would have gone to someone else at market rates. This kind of thing drags down the market rates.
We really need to get rid of the exception in the 13th amendment.
- _qua 1y agoThe number of prisoners who are capable of this type of work are minuscule and unlikely to affect wages at large.
- schaefer 1y agojust wait...
- djohnston 1y agolol indeed anyone can vibecode right?
- faitswulff 1y agoAh, but the number of people who are capable of this type of work who could be imprisoned is quite large!
- _qua 1y agoIt's rather difficult to do enough bad things to get a lengthy prison sentence these days. Usually requires a violent offense in the context of significant priors. If you're interested in doing hard federal time, I would suggest you consider interstate trafficking of distribution quantities of drugs.
- jMyles 1y ago> It's rather difficult to do enough bad things to get a lengthy prison sentence these days. ...there are two million people in prison. Several million more in various stages of the carceral cycle who be be easily subbed in when more labor is required. Slavery of this variety is alive and well.
- johnnyanmac 1y ago>It's rather difficult to do enough bad things to get a lengthy prison sentence these days If you're white, maybe. There's still stories of some states having the book thrown at recreational drug usage.
- _qua 1y agoAt the state level, by far the most common reason for long sentences are violent offenses. At the federal level it is more often trafficking at distribution scale. There are always stories, but the majority are the above. If you have a state in mind we can look at the data together.
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- SuperShibe 1y agoThe obvious solution to this are harder sentences so you can imprison more people that are capable of this kind of work
- lovich 1y agoThe loss of rights should be the payment for their crimes. Having volunteer job opportunities for reform or having them maintain their own facilities is the max that should be mandated. It’s just slavery with all the perverse incentives that come with it, and I think we’d all be better off if this was a lever that no one in society had access to pull on
- malcolmgreaves 1y agoSounds nice, until you're robbed, they catch and prosecute the guy successfully, and then you're unable to be made whole again because the criminal doesn't have any money to pay you back. What then? If they're not forced to produce something of value to give to you, then how can you ever be made whole again? Does the state pay? If so, why do taxpayers who didn't commit a crime foot the bill? If it's insurance, then why do non-criminals paying insurance premiums foot the bill? If there's nothing linking the action (_theft_) to the needed outcome (_restitution_), then there's this unmoored loop of perverse incentives wherein some folks can continue to commit crimes with very limited consequences. Doesn't mean that everyone should be forced to work while in prison. But surely for any and all crimes that have a clearly defined dollar amount, shouldn't that criminal be forced to pay that amount back? Garnishing future wages can be circumvented (_just don't get a real job when you get out, keep stealing things to support yourself_). And even at best, it's very much _delayed_ restitution. Justice delayed is justice denied.
- margalabargala 1y ago> What then? If they're not forced to produce something of value to give to you, then how can you ever be made whole again? To be clear, in the present day, when a prisoner works, how much money do you think they make, and who do you think keeps the value produced?
- WaltPurvis 1y agoThe article says the software developer is making a six-figure salary and the prison system withholds 10%.
- WaltPurvis 1y ago>prisoners being coerced to work is payment for their crimes. On the other hand, that job would have gone to someone else at market rates. This kind of thing drags down the market rates. That's a different problem, for different inmates -- the inmates covered in this story are paid market rates. It mentions the software developer has a six-figure salary.
- charcircuit 1y ago>This kind of thing drags down the market rates. Why would the prison / prisoner charge below market rates for their labor?
- toomuchtodo 1y agohttps://www.epi.org/publication/rooted-racism-prison-labor/ https://www.epi.org/publication/rooted-racism-prison-labor/ https://www.walkfree.org/news/2025/13th-amendment-loophole-fuels-forced-labour-in-us-prisons-violating-human-rights-and-benefiting-the-government-and-companies/ https://www.walkfree.org/news/2025/13th-amendment-loophole-f... https://www.npr.org/2023/11/13/1210564359/slavery-prison-forced-labor-movement https://www.npr.org/2023/11/13/1210564359/slavery-prison-for... https://www.aclu.org/news/human-rights/captive-labor-exploitation-of-incarcerated-workers https://www.aclu.org/news/human-rights/captive-labor-exploit...
- jacobr1 1y agoThe prison could, for grift reasons. They can undercut competition because their costs are lower. If a union, or even a market-rate shop needs to pay, say, $20-hour for labor, and the prison can pay $1-hour (or day) they can charge much less, and then pocket the difference. Their advantage isn't a higher quality product just a cheaper one.
- t-3 1y agoMost jobs in prisons and jails pay less than $1/day, last I heard, maybe they got the inflation adjustment the rest of missed though.
- charcircuit 1y agoWhy not charge the same and pocket a larger difference?
- jacobr1 1y agoWhy would someone buy services from a prison vs an established company. Presumably the quality would be worse and there is a potential risk to reputation. The answer would be because the prison is substantially cheaper due to not needing to abide by labor laws. There are plenty of services where I'd be willing for forgo (some) quality for significant costs decreases.
- charlieyu1 1y agoIt was not. Working in prisons started as part of rehabilitation, so the prisoners could learn life skills to survive. Now it devolved to power tripping and control.
- tamimio 1y agoAs intended, companies will do everything to lower wages and have borderline slaves work for them, either through immigrants, hiring mostly co-op workers, and now prisoners, and a lot of people are okay with it for some reason, so gullible! The "engineer" job in 2025 is like sewing in a prison a couple of decades ago, crazy.