3 ms·

Because physical presence incurs costs to taxpayer funded infrastructure? Why should I be able to dodge taxes by working remotely abroad? Are you saying indepen

by itsmek 1y ago

Because physical presence incurs costs to taxpayer funded infrastructure? Why should I be able to dodge taxes by working remotely abroad? Are you saying independently wealthy people should be able to roam around and freeload without paying tax to their resident nation? In the US many people falsely believe illegal immigrants do exactly that, and that lie has contributed to a lot of outrage, so obviously people perceive the system you're proposing as unjust.

u8080 1y ago
But illegal immigrants indeed does not pay taxes in the place of residence, why "falsely"?
- stetrain 1y ago
  > Undocumented immigrants paid $96.7 billion in federal, state, and local taxes in 2022. Most of that amount, $59.4 billion, was paid to the federal government while the remaining $37.3 billion was paid to state and local governments. https://itep.org/undocumented-immigrants-taxes-2024/ https://itep.org/undocumented-immigrants-taxes-2024/
  - Izikiel43 1y ago
    I get property and sales taxes, but how are they paying income tax? Shouldn’t they have a SSN for that?
    - vel0city 1y ago
      Tax Identification Numbers are a separate ID number for people without SSNs. Loads of legal migrants don't have SSNs but still pay taxes as well.
      - Izikiel43 1y ago
        But still, wouldn't you need some valid status to get one of those? I know from friends that had to get it for their child that they had to prove status if I remember correctly.
        vel0city 1y ago
        You do not need to prove any kind of status other than you are a foreigner and this is your identity. A foreign voter registration card, a foreign national ID card, or a USCIS-issued photo ID card can all be valid. It doesn't inherently mean you have the right to stay or work in the US. That's a part of why there was a lot of hubub about ICE searching the IRS's databases for potential targets. There are a lot of people who are probably working in the US paying income taxes without authorization to stay or work in the US. The IRS generally doesn't care about your immigration status, it just cares about collecting taxes.
    - stetrain 1y ago
      You can get a tax identification number without an SSN. An illegal / undocumented worker working a standard W-2 paycheck job is going to have taxes withheld and sent in by the employer, even if they never file their own tax return.
      - u8080 1y ago
        It is not like that, usually immigrants live in grey arey keeping all contacts with govt to the minimum, the whole idea of hiring illegals is to avoid taxes. I know that from personal experience of being illegal immigrant in US of very close person.
        stetrain 1y ago
        Some might be using faked documents to get a 'legit' job, in which case the job will withhold and pay taxes like any other legal employee. That's what the report I linked to is showing.
        itsmek 1y ago
        Did you read the link above? The average immigrant pays $9000 in tax per year.
    - triceratops 1y ago
      They often use fake or stolen SSNs. That also means they're paying Social Security and Medicare taxes but will never collect those benefits.
bluecalm 1y ago
>>Because physical presence incurs costs to taxpayer funded infrastructure? Why should I be able to dodge taxes by working remotely abroad? Are you saying independently wealthy people should be able to roam around and freeload without paying tax to their resident nation? Yeah so tax their presence: land, resources usage, consumption. If you insist on taxing their whole world wide revenue don't be surprised when someone living across multiple countries choose one that isn't yours and then you get 0 taxes. I live across 4-5 countries spending a few months here and there. Fair system would tax me for my presence/consumption/resource usage accordingly. That tax might be progressive (bigger house taxed at higher rate, luxury consumption taxes at higher rate etc.) but shouldn't belong to one country if you care about fairness.
- itsmek 1y ago
  In the US most things are funded by income and payroll tax, the taxes you mention add up to about 30% of our budget so are not enough on their own. In addition I am unconvinced that it is even possible for consumption taxes to be progressive enough to make up for their inherent regressivity at high income levels. I do think it would be reasonable for the global tax to be prorated by time spent in the US though, which would solve your objection.

by itsmek 1y ago

u8080 1y ago

But illegal immigrants indeed does not pay taxes in the place of residence, why "falsely"?

stetrain 1y ago
> Undocumented immigrants paid $96.7 billion in federal, state, and local taxes in 2022. Most of that amount, $59.4 billion, was paid to the federal government while the remaining $37.3 billion was paid to state and local governments. https://itep.org/undocumented-immigrants-taxes-2024/ https://itep.org/undocumented-immigrants-taxes-2024/
- Izikiel43 1y ago
  I get property and sales taxes, but how are they paying income tax? Shouldn’t they have a SSN for that?
  - vel0city 1y ago
    Tax Identification Numbers are a separate ID number for people without SSNs. Loads of legal migrants don't have SSNs but still pay taxes as well.
    - Izikiel43 1y ago
      But still, wouldn't you need some valid status to get one of those? I know from friends that had to get it for their child that they had to prove status if I remember correctly.
      - vel0city 1y ago
        You do not need to prove any kind of status other than you are a foreigner and this is your identity. A foreign voter registration card, a foreign national ID card, or a USCIS-issued photo ID card can all be valid. It doesn't inherently mean you have the right to stay or work in the US. That's a part of why there was a lot of hubub about ICE searching the IRS's databases for potential targets. There are a lot of people who are probably working in the US paying income taxes without authorization to stay or work in the US. The IRS generally doesn't care about your immigration status, it just cares about collecting taxes.
  - stetrain 1y ago
    You can get a tax identification number without an SSN. An illegal / undocumented worker working a standard W-2 paycheck job is going to have taxes withheld and sent in by the employer, even if they never file their own tax return.
    - u8080 1y ago
      It is not like that, usually immigrants live in grey arey keeping all contacts with govt to the minimum, the whole idea of hiring illegals is to avoid taxes. I know that from personal experience of being illegal immigrant in US of very close person.
      - stetrain 1y ago
        Some might be using faked documents to get a 'legit' job, in which case the job will withhold and pay taxes like any other legal employee. That's what the report I linked to is showing.
      - itsmek 1y ago
        Did you read the link above? The average immigrant pays $9000 in tax per year.
  - triceratops 1y ago
    They often use fake or stolen SSNs. That also means they're paying Social Security and Medicare taxes but will never collect those benefits.

bluecalm 1y ago

>>Because physical presence incurs costs to taxpayer funded infrastructure? Why should I be able to dodge taxes by working remotely abroad? Are you saying independently wealthy people should be able to roam around and freeload without paying tax to their resident nation? Yeah so tax their presence: land, resources usage, consumption. If you insist on taxing their whole world wide revenue don't be surprised when someone living across multiple countries choose one that isn't yours and then you get 0 taxes. I live across 4-5 countries spending a few months here and there. Fair system would tax me for my presence/consumption/resource usage accordingly. That tax might be progressive (bigger house taxed at higher rate, luxury consumption taxes at higher rate etc.) but shouldn't belong to one country if you care about fairness.

itsmek 1y ago
In the US most things are funded by income and payroll tax, the taxes you mention add up to about 30% of our budget so are not enough on their own. In addition I am unconvinced that it is even possible for consumption taxes to be progressive enough to make up for their inherent regressivity at high income levels. I do think it would be reasonable for the global tax to be prorated by time spent in the US though, which would solve your objection.