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> without any concern over the cost of doing it? indeed thats why to have accountants and lawyers, the issue here is that non-dom meant that you could avoid pa

> without any concern over the cost of doing it? indeed thats why to have accountants and lawyers, the issue here is that non-dom meant that you could avoid paying tax on stuff you earnt outside of the UK. for example if you have a lot of income being generated in the USA, then being a non-dom meant that you could avoid paying tax here in the UK at the same time. For US citizens its a bit harder, as you're liable for tax on all income, regardless of source. I'm not sure how they get round that, debt financing or something similar I imagine

SilverElfin 1y ago
What’s the problem with that? Why should the UK or any country have a claim to money people are making elsewhere?
- KaiserPro 1y ago
  I think its an issue of fairness. I, as a rich techbro, but not an Uber rich techbro, have to pay ~46% of my income in tax. (even though the majority comes from the US in USD) Don't get me wrong, I earn a fucking kings ransom, and I don't mind paying that amount of tax. but. If I was earning maybe 4x that amount, I could probably avoid a whole bunch of tax. It doesn't seem correct that the richer you get, the more optional tax is.
  - maccard 1y ago
    The thing is it’s not even 4x that amount, it’s more like 20x that amount.
    - KaiserPro 1y ago
      Having listened to my more senior colleagues, it wasn't that much more. If you own your own company, or have the ability to change your contract, its probably a lot less.
- itsmek 1y ago
  Because physical presence incurs costs to taxpayer funded infrastructure? Why should I be able to dodge taxes by working remotely abroad? Are you saying independently wealthy people should be able to roam around and freeload without paying tax to their resident nation? In the US many people falsely believe illegal immigrants do exactly that, and that lie has contributed to a lot of outrage, so obviously people perceive the system you're proposing as unjust.
  - u8080 1y ago
    But illegal immigrants indeed does not pay taxes in the place of residence, why "falsely"?
    - stetrain 1y ago
      > Undocumented immigrants paid $96.7 billion in federal, state, and local taxes in 2022. Most of that amount, $59.4 billion, was paid to the federal government while the remaining $37.3 billion was paid to state and local governments. https://itep.org/undocumented-immigrants-taxes-2024/ https://itep.org/undocumented-immigrants-taxes-2024/
      - Izikiel43 1y ago
        I get property and sales taxes, but how are they paying income tax? Shouldn’t they have a SSN for that?
        vel0city 1y ago
        Tax Identification Numbers are a separate ID number for people without SSNs. Loads of legal migrants don't have SSNs but still pay taxes as well.
        Izikiel43 1y ago
        But still, wouldn't you need some valid status to get one of those? I know from friends that had to get it for their child that they had to prove status if I remember correctly.
- crazygringo 1y ago
  Morally speaking, there are two principles at play. The first is paying your fair share of taxes for enabling the system of rule of law, financial protection, courts, stability provided by national defense, etc. that help you earn that money in the first place. This argues for paying taxes in the country where the money is earned. The second is the principle of progressive taxation that funds the entire social system where you live -- roads, schools, parks, police, health care, retirement. The richer you are, the higher the rate you can and should give back. Thus it doesn't matter whether you make your money at home or abroad -- it counts toward the taxes you're morally obligated to pay for where you reside and/or are a citizen of. Because these conflict, the US allows for Americans to let taxes paid abroad count against their US taxes, so they're not double-taxed. Which is one form of a reasonable compromise. There are many other forms you could imagine.
  - bluecalm 1y ago
    I lived in country A - normal apartment, I went to a really shitty school, got bullied there, didn't finish university. I had to pay out of pocket for healthcare as public option sucks and didn't want to help me. I made my money selling my software to people abroad. How is it in any way fair that I pay all my taxes in country A instead of to all the countries that really made it possible for me to earn money? >>Thus it doesn't matter whether you make your money at home or abroad -- it counts toward the taxes you're morally obligated to pay for where you reside and/or are a citizen of. What about all other countries that were stable and nice enough and allowed me to make money? Why should I be "morally obliged" to pay taxes in a country I didn't choose, that was shitty to me and didn't help me much if at all? I used very little resources there (now I finally moved). It would feel even more unfair if they followed me abroad and required even more taxes. >>There are many other forms you could imagine. Yeah, like paying proportionally (or progressively) for resources you use in a country or for business you do in that country. It seems really unfair that my country gets all my taxes for providing very little to me while all other countries that gave me business opportunities got close to nothing (some VAT in EU countries but that's it).
    - ghusto 1y ago
- ForHackernews 1y ago
  Are you asking why any country is able to impose a tax on its residents? Morally, because they owe an obligation to the society they live in. Practically, because the state has a local monopoly on violence and may jail them unless they pay.
  - bluecalm 1y ago
    Why should that obligation be proportional (or progressively proportional) to the wealth you have and not to the resources you use (or wealth you have in that country). Why someone who made millions in Poland (and paid taxed there) should pay 20x for living the same life in say Spain as a typical resident there? It's so easy to say "moral" but I struggle to see the moral principle at play. I understand paying proportionally to resources/wealth in that country. I understand paying progressively for those or income in that country but why pay in proportion to what you have already build in another place?
    - ForHackernews 1y ago
      Live in that other place, then, mate.
      - bluecalm 1y ago
        As it is I live for a few months per year in Spain for free. One of the reasons I am advocating for sane taxation instead of knee-jerk one (like wealth tax on world wide assets). I would really like to pay my fair share there but as it's nothing or a leg I choose nothing.
    - ghusto 1y ago
      > Why should that obligation be proportional (or progressively proportional) to the wealth you have and not to the resources you use It is proportional to the resources you use in every case where that is possible. It is nonsensical to say "Well, you used only 2% of police time this year, so that's how much police-tax you'll be paying", not least because it is impossible to put a "usage" on the benefit of having police in the first place. Where it is possible, like how much land you own, you are taxed proportionately.
- MrSkelter 1y ago
  You are morally liable to pay taxes where you use services and rely on infrastructure.

SilverElfin 1y ago

What’s the problem with that? Why should the UK or any country have a claim to money people are making elsewhere?

KaiserPro 1y ago
I think its an issue of fairness. I, as a rich techbro, but not an Uber rich techbro, have to pay ~46% of my income in tax. (even though the majority comes from the US in USD) Don't get me wrong, I earn a fucking kings ransom, and I don't mind paying that amount of tax. but. If I was earning maybe 4x that amount, I could probably avoid a whole bunch of tax. It doesn't seem correct that the richer you get, the more optional tax is.
- maccard 1y ago
  The thing is it’s not even 4x that amount, it’s more like 20x that amount.
  - KaiserPro 1y ago
    Having listened to my more senior colleagues, it wasn't that much more. If you own your own company, or have the ability to change your contract, its probably a lot less.
itsmek 1y ago
Because physical presence incurs costs to taxpayer funded infrastructure? Why should I be able to dodge taxes by working remotely abroad? Are you saying independently wealthy people should be able to roam around and freeload without paying tax to their resident nation? In the US many people falsely believe illegal immigrants do exactly that, and that lie has contributed to a lot of outrage, so obviously people perceive the system you're proposing as unjust.
- u8080 1y ago
  But illegal immigrants indeed does not pay taxes in the place of residence, why "falsely"?
  - stetrain 1y ago
    > Undocumented immigrants paid $96.7 billion in federal, state, and local taxes in 2022. Most of that amount, $59.4 billion, was paid to the federal government while the remaining $37.3 billion was paid to state and local governments. https://itep.org/undocumented-immigrants-taxes-2024/ https://itep.org/undocumented-immigrants-taxes-2024/
    - Izikiel43 1y ago
      I get property and sales taxes, but how are they paying income tax? Shouldn’t they have a SSN for that?
      - vel0city 1y ago
        Tax Identification Numbers are a separate ID number for people without SSNs. Loads of legal migrants don't have SSNs but still pay taxes as well.
        Izikiel43 1y ago
        But still, wouldn't you need some valid status to get one of those? I know from friends that had to get it for their child that they had to prove status if I remember correctly.
crazygringo 1y ago
Morally speaking, there are two principles at play. The first is paying your fair share of taxes for enabling the system of rule of law, financial protection, courts, stability provided by national defense, etc. that help you earn that money in the first place. This argues for paying taxes in the country where the money is earned. The second is the principle of progressive taxation that funds the entire social system where you live -- roads, schools, parks, police, health care, retirement. The richer you are, the higher the rate you can and should give back. Thus it doesn't matter whether you make your money at home or abroad -- it counts toward the taxes you're morally obligated to pay for where you reside and/or are a citizen of. Because these conflict, the US allows for Americans to let taxes paid abroad count against their US taxes, so they're not double-taxed. Which is one form of a reasonable compromise. There are many other forms you could imagine.
- bluecalm 1y ago
  I lived in country A - normal apartment, I went to a really shitty school, got bullied there, didn't finish university. I had to pay out of pocket for healthcare as public option sucks and didn't want to help me. I made my money selling my software to people abroad. How is it in any way fair that I pay all my taxes in country A instead of to all the countries that really made it possible for me to earn money? >>Thus it doesn't matter whether you make your money at home or abroad -- it counts toward the taxes you're morally obligated to pay for where you reside and/or are a citizen of. What about all other countries that were stable and nice enough and allowed me to make money? Why should I be "morally obliged" to pay taxes in a country I didn't choose, that was shitty to me and didn't help me much if at all? I used very little resources there (now I finally moved). It would feel even more unfair if they followed me abroad and required even more taxes. >>There are many other forms you could imagine. Yeah, like paying proportionally (or progressively) for resources you use in a country or for business you do in that country. It seems really unfair that my country gets all my taxes for providing very little to me while all other countries that gave me business opportunities got close to nothing (some VAT in EU countries but that's it).
  - ghusto 1y ago
ForHackernews 1y ago
Are you asking why any country is able to impose a tax on its residents? Morally, because they owe an obligation to the society they live in. Practically, because the state has a local monopoly on violence and may jail them unless they pay.
- bluecalm 1y ago
  Why should that obligation be proportional (or progressively proportional) to the wealth you have and not to the resources you use (or wealth you have in that country). Why someone who made millions in Poland (and paid taxed there) should pay 20x for living the same life in say Spain as a typical resident there? It's so easy to say "moral" but I struggle to see the moral principle at play. I understand paying proportionally to resources/wealth in that country. I understand paying progressively for those or income in that country but why pay in proportion to what you have already build in another place?
  - ForHackernews 1y ago
    Live in that other place, then, mate.
    - bluecalm 1y ago
      As it is I live for a few months per year in Spain for free. One of the reasons I am advocating for sane taxation instead of knee-jerk one (like wealth tax on world wide assets). I would really like to pay my fair share there but as it's nothing or a leg I choose nothing.
  - ghusto 1y ago
    > Why should that obligation be proportional (or progressively proportional) to the wealth you have and not to the resources you use It is proportional to the resources you use in every case where that is possible. It is nonsensical to say "Well, you used only 2% of police time this year, so that's how much police-tax you'll be paying", not least because it is impossible to put a "usage" on the benefit of having police in the first place. Where it is possible, like how much land you own, you are taxed proportionately.
MrSkelter 1y ago
You are morally liable to pay taxes where you use services and rely on infrastructure.