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> In the context of war, what Israel is doing is not outside the norm. "More children have died in three weeks in Gaza than in the entire sum of conflicts arou

by Aeolun 1y ago

> In the context of war, what Israel is doing is not outside the norm. "More children have died in three weeks in Gaza than in the entire sum of conflicts around the world in the past four years." — Save the Children, October 2023

egisspegis 1y ago
[flagged]
- ceejayoz 1y ago
  The statement appears to be entirely accurate. https://www.unicef.org/press-releases/least-10-children-killed-less-week-deadly-attacks-continue-myanmar https://www.unicef.org/press-releases/least-10-children-kill... > In 2024 alone, at least 600 children have been killed or injured in Myanmar. https://www.unicef.org/press-releases/geneva-palais-briefing-note-horrifying-numbers-children-killed-injured-sudan https://www.unicef.org/press-releases/geneva-palais-briefing... > As feared and as warned, the situation in Sudan has become fatal for a frighteningly large number of children. In reports UNICEF has received that cover the period from the start of the fighting until 25 April 2023, 190 children have been killed. https://www.unicef.org/press-releases/unimaginable-horrors-more-50000-children-reportedly-killed-or-injured-gaza-strip https://www.unicef.org/press-releases/unimaginable-horrors-m... > In total, more than 50,000 children have reportedly been killed or injured since October 2023.
  - egisspegis 1y ago
    Mariupol.
    - ceejayoz 1y ago
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Mariupol https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Mariupol > Ukrainian officials reported that approximately 25,000 civilians had been killed… Even if every one of those 25k were kids, still no. The actual report "Save the Children" cites is available at https://digitallibrary.un.org/record/4084012?ln=en&v=pdf https://digitallibrary.un.org/record/4084012?ln=en&v=pdf - page three of the English report states: > The violations verified in the greatest numbers were the killing (4,676) and maiming (7,291) of 11,967 children, the denial of humanitarian access (7,906 incidents), the recruitment and use of children (7,402) and the abduction of children (4,573). The number of children detained for actual or alleged association with armed groups including those which are currently under sanctions enacted by the Security Council, or for national security reasons, surged to 3,018, further depriving children of their rights. The highest numbers of grave violations were verified in Israel and the Occupied Palestinian Territory (8,554), the Democratic Republic of the Congo (4,043), Somalia (2,568), Nigeria (2,436) and Haiti (2,269). The sharpest percentage increases in the number of violations were verified in Lebanon (545%), Mozambique (525%), Haiti (490%), Ethiopia (235%) and Ukraine (105%). (A preemptive note: These are verified cases; so the real numbers will be higher. In both conflicts, verifying every or even most cases is… tough.) https://www.unicef.org/press-releases/average-least-16-children-killed-or-injured-ukraine-every-week-escalation-war-nears https://www.unicef.org/press-releases/average-least-16-child... > At least 2,406 children have been killed or injured since the escalation of the war in Ukraine nearly 1,000 days ago, according to the latest available verified reports.
      - egisspegis 1y ago
        High-end estimate for Gaza (provided by hamas, a well known terrorist group): 64 000. High-end for Mariupol (provided by Uppsala Conflict Data Program): 88 000. When comparing numbers one should also compare high-end estimates vs. high-end estimates and conservative numbers vs. conservative numbers.
        ceejayoz 1y ago
        That's total. Now, as the claim is about children, do the proportion of each place under 18. Half of Gaza are minors, which is quite unusual, and very much not the case in Ukraine. https://data.unicef.org/how-many/how-many-children-under-18-are-there-in-ukraine/ https://data.unicef.org/how-many/how-many-children-under-18-... (6,609,605 / 37,732,836 ) https://data.unicef.org/how-many/how-many-children-under-18-are-there-in-the-state-of-palestine/ https://data.unicef.org/how-many/how-many-children-under-18-... (2,415,888 / 5,409,202) https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/ukraine-population/ https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/ukraine-popul... "The median age in Ukraine is 41.8 years." https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/state-of-palestine-population/ https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/state-of-pale... "The median age in the State of Palestine is 20.1 years."
        egisspegis 1y ago
        I will do the proportions as soon as I find more sources on what is the median age of hamas member. Maybe you have some data on that?
_DeadFred_ 1y ago
10,000 children were kidnapped from Ukraine and the Palestinians supporters here said they don't care/it's not worth caring about. This is political/theological, not a pure morality issue.
- ceejayoz 1y ago
  I care quite a bit, but my tax dollars are a) funding the deaths of Palestinian children and b) funding the fight against Russia's invasion. I would very much like both conflicts to stop hurting kids.

by Aeolun 1y ago

egisspegis 1y ago

[flagged]

ceejayoz 1y ago
The statement appears to be entirely accurate. https://www.unicef.org/press-releases/least-10-children-killed-less-week-deadly-attacks-continue-myanmar https://www.unicef.org/press-releases/least-10-children-kill... > In 2024 alone, at least 600 children have been killed or injured in Myanmar. https://www.unicef.org/press-releases/geneva-palais-briefing-note-horrifying-numbers-children-killed-injured-sudan https://www.unicef.org/press-releases/geneva-palais-briefing... > As feared and as warned, the situation in Sudan has become fatal for a frighteningly large number of children. In reports UNICEF has received that cover the period from the start of the fighting until 25 April 2023, 190 children have been killed. https://www.unicef.org/press-releases/unimaginable-horrors-more-50000-children-reportedly-killed-or-injured-gaza-strip https://www.unicef.org/press-releases/unimaginable-horrors-m... > In total, more than 50,000 children have reportedly been killed or injured since October 2023.
- egisspegis 1y ago
  Mariupol.
  - ceejayoz 1y ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Mariupol https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Mariupol > Ukrainian officials reported that approximately 25,000 civilians had been killed… Even if every one of those 25k were kids, still no. The actual report "Save the Children" cites is available at https://digitallibrary.un.org/record/4084012?ln=en&v=pdf https://digitallibrary.un.org/record/4084012?ln=en&v=pdf - page three of the English report states: > The violations verified in the greatest numbers were the killing (4,676) and maiming (7,291) of 11,967 children, the denial of humanitarian access (7,906 incidents), the recruitment and use of children (7,402) and the abduction of children (4,573). The number of children detained for actual or alleged association with armed groups including those which are currently under sanctions enacted by the Security Council, or for national security reasons, surged to 3,018, further depriving children of their rights. The highest numbers of grave violations were verified in Israel and the Occupied Palestinian Territory (8,554), the Democratic Republic of the Congo (4,043), Somalia (2,568), Nigeria (2,436) and Haiti (2,269). The sharpest percentage increases in the number of violations were verified in Lebanon (545%), Mozambique (525%), Haiti (490%), Ethiopia (235%) and Ukraine (105%). (A preemptive note: These are verified cases; so the real numbers will be higher. In both conflicts, verifying every or even most cases is… tough.) https://www.unicef.org/press-releases/average-least-16-children-killed-or-injured-ukraine-every-week-escalation-war-nears https://www.unicef.org/press-releases/average-least-16-child... > At least 2,406 children have been killed or injured since the escalation of the war in Ukraine nearly 1,000 days ago, according to the latest available verified reports.
    - egisspegis 1y ago
      High-end estimate for Gaza (provided by hamas, a well known terrorist group): 64 000. High-end for Mariupol (provided by Uppsala Conflict Data Program): 88 000. When comparing numbers one should also compare high-end estimates vs. high-end estimates and conservative numbers vs. conservative numbers.
      - ceejayoz 1y ago
        That's total. Now, as the claim is about children, do the proportion of each place under 18. Half of Gaza are minors, which is quite unusual, and very much not the case in Ukraine. https://data.unicef.org/how-many/how-many-children-under-18-are-there-in-ukraine/ https://data.unicef.org/how-many/how-many-children-under-18-... (6,609,605 / 37,732,836 ) https://data.unicef.org/how-many/how-many-children-under-18-are-there-in-the-state-of-palestine/ https://data.unicef.org/how-many/how-many-children-under-18-... (2,415,888 / 5,409,202) https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/ukraine-population/ https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/ukraine-popul... "The median age in Ukraine is 41.8 years." https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/state-of-palestine-population/ https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/state-of-pale... "The median age in the State of Palestine is 20.1 years."
        egisspegis 1y ago
        I will do the proportions as soon as I find more sources on what is the median age of hamas member. Maybe you have some data on that?

_DeadFred_ 1y ago

10,000 children were kidnapped from Ukraine and the Palestinians supporters here said they don't care/it's not worth caring about. This is political/theological, not a pure morality issue.

ceejayoz 1y ago
I care quite a bit, but my tax dollars are a) funding the deaths of Palestinian children and b) funding the fight against Russia's invasion. I would very much like both conflicts to stop hurting kids.