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Ask HN: Is America Going to Become an Autocracy?

59 points by baby 1y ago

I'm becoming increasingly worried watching the news that the US is past a point of no-return. I came to HN for a bit of comfort, but realized that it is also dystopian that all we're talking about here is tech while what we know as the US is slowly collapsing.

rman666 1y ago
[flagged]
- tomhow 1y ago
  You can't comment like this on HN, no matter who or what you're replying to. The guidelines ask us all to be kind; they're the first words in the "In Comments" section: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
Poomba 1y ago
Cant speak for anyone else but personally, i got many other things to worry about in my life, such as my kids, family, my health, my parents health, building wealth/finances, and i simply dont have the time or bandwidth to worry about this country.
- dragonwriter 1y ago
  The state of the government of the country is not an orthogonal concern to...well, any of those other concerns you list.
- baby 1y ago
  I used to watch a lot of interviews in Moscow and about in Russia during the start of the war in Ukraine, and I remember that that was a lot of the response people would give. Most of them would say "I'm apolitical". I don't mean to tell people what they should do, but I think this is the modern death of democracy: most people don't want to put their lives on the line to protect it, but the loud crazies are spending 24/7 on destroying it
  - Poomba 1y ago
    There’s also practically nothing i can do to stop any of this. I dont hold any position of power or influence. So given that, i choose not to worry about it, for the sake of my mental health
    - _DeadFred_ 1y ago
      Shows of support gives those that can do something the courage to continue working for change. Protests/crowds supporting them are hugely important for those people in places of power that are on your side. Shows of support show not everyone agrees. Break the illusion of absolute authority.
      - Poomba 1y ago
        How can I support them? (Sincere question)
        _DeadFred_ 1y ago
        Show you exist. Go to rallies if you can, if you can't then cheer them on if you see them. Sign petitions. If your representatives are doing things you support, contact and let them know. If your friends post something you are scared to, let them know you saw it, that they aren't speaking into a void. When I was in a bad place, I had a black friend who would always tell me 'I see you <deadfred>' and 'keep your head up'. Do that. Anywhere where you can be a feedback loop to give others a little support, a little strength, a feeling they aren't alone is huge. Don't post negative if possible, that adds to their maximal pressure on society to look like they are winning, that supports them and their narrative. Post about your grandparents overcoming this stuff. Post america rejected it before. Post a small act of defiance you did, instead of conforming in advance. They will mock you, because all they have is mockery and pressure to conform to give the illusion that everyone has given in, that they have won. Their mockery is weakness. Is admitting they don't have control. These people only win when we give up. It's why the have maximal pressure everywhere. In the hopes it overwhelms us and makes us think they have already won.
- delichon 1y ago
  That's like trying to pilot a plane or a boat without reference to the currents.
  - Poomba 1y ago
    Disagree. For example, how i educate my kids has far more of an impact than something like the administration trying to stop public school funding. How much i exercise or how well i eat has far more of an impact of my health than the current administration getting rid of vaccines
    - saubeidl 1y ago
      Say that again after your kids are forced to go to mandatory patriotic education camps, where they catch measles and die. That's the sort of future you're heading to if you don't stand up and do something about it.
      - Poomba 1y ago
        Thats what everyone says. But nobody ever ever says what things to do thst actually will have an impact..
        tobias3 1y ago
        E.g. go to the next "No kings" protest.
        tastyface 1y ago
        Emigrate. I’m nowhere close to having kids, but if I do, there’s no way I’d educate them in a country where PragerU is considered a legitimate educational resource and school shootings happen every few weeks.
        Poomba 1y ago
        When ur entire immediate family is here (ie. Aging mom with mobility issues, kids , siblings that depend on u for housing assistance) that is not practical.
panarchy 1y ago
The point of no return was likely electing someone that attempted a coup (fake electors plot) back into office. If they didn't want to leave peacefully or legally the first time what made anyone think they would the second. PS this site is filled with people who downvote and flag any post that makes Trump look bad so good luck with yours. Germans were 'simply' worried about their jobs and dealing with the 'violent left', homeless, and rounding up people that they viewed as invaders poisoning their way of life. They were even largely quite happy with Hitler. He didn't take Germany against its will (technically he did, but the people fell in line and reported liking him after it happened, except for those "communists and antifa"), he was the manifest will of those who felt scorned by how society had changed around them. It wasn't until the fallout of the aftermath of their desires and evidence of the evils that they were perpetrating did they start to realize they were played and even then the sunk cost fallacy was too strong and many Germans went to their graves believing Hitler was right.
fennec-posix 1y ago
I'm Australian, so your news and politics are covered quite extensively over here. I also have people I care about there in the US. There's no doubt that things are getting a lot worse. The rhetoric against Immigrants and Transgender people is following a worrying trend towards more violence and persecution. It's most definitely not your finest hour right now. I wouldn't say it's ONLY tech that is talked about here, I do see a lot of cross-over with Tech and the political climate in the United States as both are very much intertwined. I have seen people recognise that things are becoming a lot more autocratic. Though for your sanity, I recommend trying to pull away from the news and social media much as possible. These places greatly amplify the issues and no doubt make people more anxious and nervous, because they want your attention on their platform all the time to advertise and make revenue. It's important to stay aware of events, but you gotta make sure you take care of yourself too. Take a break if it's becoming too much. As for what to do about the US... I can only hope your constitution and those who truly uphold its values will continue to fight the attack against it.
- CHB0403085482 1y ago
  Not to mention, Australia is militarily tied to USA. AUKUS sub program, F-35 jets and Pine Gap are a few examples.
drankl 1y ago
The US has been through worse, you'll probably be fine. Best thing to do is not watch the news as much, it's designed to make you worry about things that are out of your control.
al_borland 1y ago
Turn off the news for a while. We have congress, we have the courts, we have term limits. Part of living in a democracy is not always liking the current administration. The administrations, good or bad, are temporary. George W Bush once said: “We're here in the Oval Office, and by the way, the office is bigger than the person. And so when you work for democracy and freedom in your country, make sure you put institutions in place that are bigger than the individuals.” [0] The office is bigger than one man. And if you think Trump is ruling as if it’s not, then you should be happy, because any rule he makes that way can be undone just as easily if it doesn’t make sense. [0] https://georgewbush-whitehouse.archives.gov/results/leadership/bush-card-200401-transcript.html https://georgewbush-whitehouse.archives.gov/results/leadersh...
- saubeidl 1y ago
  Congress is completely under autocratic control. It appears the supreme court is, as well. They keep hinting at wanting to use those above two factors to get rid of term limits.
  - al_borland 1y ago
    Saying Congress is under autocratic control is hyperbole. There is a slight Republican advantage, smaller than the Democrat’s advantage during Biden’s term. The big beautiful bill didn’t sail through Congress, it took a while and the vote was close… a whole bunch of nonsense went on to get that through. If it was autocratic control, Trump wouldn’t be signing a million executive orders, he could sail them right through Congress and make them much stronger. The important question to ask, is why the Democrats have had such a hard time winning at the polls? Clearly the message of “we’re not Trump” isn’t enough for voters, and voters also don’t like candidates being chosen for them (even Bernie agreed that the Democrats haven’t had an honest primary since 2008). The party is broken, and it’s easy to point the finger at the right, but the Democrats have been hemorrhaging voters and still seem unable to get their act together enough to win people back. There is a growing center that feels both parties have left them behind, and it would be great if the Democrats could wake up, see that, and move forward with an ounce of common sense to win them back. Balance won’t be restored by demonizing the right, it will be restored by the Democrats getting their own house in order, before they claim to have the answers for the country. At this point, both parties might be too far gone. I’d be happy to see them both implode and new parties emerge without all the baggage of the past.
deleted 1y ago
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toomuchtodo 1y ago
Maybe. As long as elections are still held, should be fine. Assuming they aren't, you can either decide to leave (valid, lower risk exposure, no shame in self preservation) or ensure elections continue to be held (higher risk exposure). The higher your risk tolerance, the more you should consider this an opportunity (once in a lifetime) to flex constitution and grit development. ~2M voters (the margin of victory for the last presidential election) 55+ age out every year, ~5k per day. Rural America is rapidly evaporating with farmers (75-80% of whom voted for this) in extreme financial distress from the self inflicted trade war (China is zeroing out US ag imports as a show of counterforce, and they can outlast this admin). Rural hospitals are similarly at a breaking point with ~700 hospitals expected to close soon (~300 imminently) due to Medicaid cuts from the OBBB. And of course, he is beyond male life expectancy while having symptoms of late stage congestive heart disease and failure. "Hold fast." Embrace the suck while progress occurs one funeral at a time (Planck's principle).
FridayoLeary 1y ago
No. It's just hyperbole. It's true that Trump has some worrying authoritarian tendencies. He's shoving his agenda through with all the subtlety of a sledgehammer and has created multiple constitutional crises. He's determined to fulfill his campaign promises and carry out his vision as fast as possible before fully considering the consequences and demands absolute loyalty from everyone in his party and kicks out anyone who speaks out against him. Just the other day i read how Obama criticised him and thought for a moment unironically "wow that's brave of him". Where was i again? Oh yeah. I think it's just a transient phenomena. America needs a lot of fixing and Trump doesn't have a lot of time. He certainly doesn't want to waste it clarifying the legal limits of his authority. But no. The US is fundamentally too strong to fall like that. Earlier today [1] in response to a comment of mine and in all seriousness someone bemoaned the fact that America was so terribly authoritarian that Trump has the House, Judiciary and most of the voters on his side! Yeah democracy can be inconvenient like that sometimes. My opinion is that Trump is the hero america needs not the one it deserves. I'm not coming to trivialise anyones concerns but i don't think he's the antichrist people make him out to be. He's been doing a truly absurd amount of winning from his perspective at least and if anything is a great example of how much a truly powerful Western leader can achieve. The only question that remains is if his policies are correct or not which is a matter of rigorous debate, not all of which is conducted in good faith. [1]I'll post the relevant part here for convenience >>What's interesting is that the gaps in our political system that allow him to do so many illegal and distasteful things have always been there. The framers of the constitution never anticipated all three branches of government colluding together in alignment and bad faith, with the vociferous support of roughly half the voting population.
- seanmcdirmid 1y ago
  Everything that Trump has done via executive order and proclamation should have been checked by the court, and it mostly has except the Supreme Court has granted new supreme powers to the executive that aren’t going away even after Trump leaves office. That is the biggest travesty here, the American system of checks and balances has basically been broken and nothing short of a constitutional convention or revolution is going to fix it.
deleted 1y ago
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orionblastar 1y ago
It is what the majority of voters voted for. We need better Democratic candidates to beat the Republicans. Harris had too many word salads to understand what her campaign was all about. We need better speakers and new blood in the Democratic Party.
- treetalker 1y ago
  I must disagree. The proposition that Trump prevailed even in part, let alone primarily, on account of Harris's, not Trump's, spewing of word salad is detached from reality. That said, perhaps those who ended up voting for Trump found Harris too articulate, too endowed with a post-fifth-grade-playground vocabulary, and were unable to understand her at the level and register with which she spoke — and thus, to them, it sounded like word salad.
  - orionblastar 1y ago
    https://www.todoist.com/inspiration/feynman-technique https://www.todoist.com/inspiration/feynman-technique The Feyman Technique, which I learned in college, says to simplify your speech so you and others can easily learn it. Public Speaking taught me to keep my words simple so a 5 year-old can understand me. It doesn't seem like Harris learned that, and her giggles and stutter made things worse. She failed to reach the people who are in the lower half of the IQ curve, and also insulted half the nation using hate speech on them when she should have used love. I think people voting for Trump did it as a "F you" to Harris and the Democrats.
    - baby 1y ago
      Sure but a lot of the people who voted democrat also did it to vote against Trump
      - orionblastar 1y ago
        https://www.investigativepost.org/2024/11/10/the-numbers-behind-the-vote-for-president/ https://www.investigativepost.org/2024/11/10/the-numbers-beh... Did you know 8 million voters for Biden refused to vote at all? They would have voted for Harris if they did. Trump received fewer votes but got the electoral college state points. But a good point that people voted for Harris because they didn't like Trump. I am sure there are other factors as well.
mrangle 1y ago
[flagged]
- dang 1y ago
  Edit: looking through your account history it's clear that you've been using the site primarily for flamewar and ideological battle, and stooping regularly to personal attacks as well. We can't have that here, so I've banned the account. -- original comment -- Could you please stop posting flamewar comments to HN, regardless of how right you are or feel you are? You've been doing it repeatedly, and we've already asked you to stop. It's not what this site is for, and destroys what it is for. If you'd please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and stick to the rules when posting here, we'd appreciate it.
- defrost 1y ago
  People across the board have expressed concerns about a Trump autocracy for years, this has accelerated in the past six months, well before the recent school shooting of Kirk. Very few of the people concerned about Trump are aligned with the specific variations of terminally online viewpoint that drove the Kirk assassination. Simplistic Us v Them takes fall well short of being insightful or useful.
Blackstrat 1y ago
No, the US is not becoming autocratic. The media coverage is different because they are anti-Trump, but every administration has done "autocratic" things. Trump isn't unique, merely more bombastic and open about them. Obama, Biden, Clinton, both Bushs, etc. have all done things that we'd view as autocratic if we had been aware of them at the time. Quit worrying and enjoy life. The AI bubble should concern you more than Trump.
- Blackstrat 1y ago
  When did tech become dominated by snowflakes? Any comments that aren’t blatantly critical of Trump are downvoted. Laughable, but sad. My generation was far more inclusive and tolerant than what I see here or in the media.
  - CamperBob2 1y ago
    A "snowflake" would do things like weaponize the DoJ against his perceived personal enemies (https://bsky.app/profile/mmasnick.bsky.social/post/3lzcin3tyz22e https://bsky.app/profile/mmasnick.bsky.social/post/3lzcin3ty...) and call for journalists to be fired or worse for offending his delicate sensibilities. There aren't many "snowflakes" around here, as far as I can tell, but just in case you're looking for one, those are some helpful tips for your search.
    - Blackstrat 1y ago
      [flagged]
      - CamperBob2 1y ago
        Here's your own homework lesson: the Bluesky link is necessary because Trump deleted the tweet as soon as he realized he had posted something unethical that he'd meant to DM to the Attorney General. We are saddled with Cheeto Benito precisely because Obama and Biden failed to use the DoJ to take him down. They insisted on playing 3D chess while Trump played 5D Calvinball. Can you imagine one of them sending a message like this one to Merrick Garland?
throwing-up 1y ago
I think the internet may have driven some people hysterical or something, or they are making extreme comments on purpose to instigate, or create FUD. The U.S. is a huge country, so experience varies by region. But in populous regions, shopping centers and restaurants and clubs are filled with folks doing their normal thing. Businesses are doing their normal thing 9-5 every week, and local and state governments are running their ship as best as they can while navigating a different type of presidency. Property prices are up, and unemployment is relatively low. There are concerns, but that’s normal for every country. It’s better for concerned citizens to reach out to their representatives to talk about specific issues than to let possible nation state actors rile you up into extremism. Democracy is alive and well in America, but yeah it’s tougher for liberals and globalists to push anything that’s not America First.
markus_zhang 1y ago
Nah it's not. There are always a lot of factions infighting, in any modern countries. A president may say or do a lot of things, but he/she relies on a whole army of people to actually implement them.
- recursivecaveat 1y ago
  Huh? I mean every autocrat ever has relied on an army. Usually they have to overcome factions like Pompey with personally loyal battalions and warships and such, not a bunch of people who can just file lawsuits against someone already declared immune to them.
panarchy 1y ago
The rise of autocrats and tyrants is often bulwarked by people saying everyone else is engaging in hyperbole and that it won't be that bad and that there's always been people like this through history so it's no big deal now. Plan accordingly @baby.
willmarch 1y ago
Yes.
baby 1y ago
I deleted twitter following advice here, but now it's on HN again https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45340814#45341158 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45340814#45341158