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People describe all of these countries as authoritarian for various reasons. Multiple Indian immigrants I have worked with in the US have expressed displeasure

People describe all of these countries as authoritarian for various reasons. Multiple Indian immigrants I have worked with in the US have expressed displeasure at authoritarianism in India today, which I find difficult to distinguish from just not liking Modi.

crop_rotation 1y ago
I mean authoritarianism in India is far worse than what Trump can do at his worst, so their displeasure is not unwarranted.
- rammer 1y ago
  Absolute bollocks, do you actually know anything about India and what's happening in the last 10 years. Easy being a keyboard warrior when you don't have to provide any justification.
  - crop_rotation 1y ago
    What part is bollocks? Please enlighten me on what radical transformation has happened in the last 10 years to make India less authoritarian, I can only see it increasing in the last 10 years. And yes I am very aware of what is happening, having seen the ground reality in tons of different places both urban and rural.
decremental 1y ago
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timr 1y ago
Few people actually know what "authoritarian" means, and are mostly just repeating things they've heard and intend to mean as "leaders doing things I don't personally like." A strict definition of "authoritarian" [1] doesn't fit the current US administration at all in many ways, since they've focused their attention on tearing down government, not building it up. In some ways they demand stricter enforcement of (pre-existing!) rules, but in many others they have acted to undermine government authority (e.g. with respect to environmental regulations). Generally the people who decry authoritarianism in the domain of immigration enforcement will turn around and decry loosening of regulations about things that they prefer to be regulated by the government. [1] "favoring or enforcing strict obedience to authority, especially that of the government, at the expense of personal freedom." per Google's definition.
- tenuousemphasis 1y ago
  They are filling every power vacuum they create with direct executive power. Pure authoritarianism.
  - timr 1y ago
    > They are filling every power vacuum they create with direct executive power. Pure authoritarianism. I just gave you a correct definition of authoritarianism, and that isn't it. It's also untrue -- this administration has rather aggressively moved to deregulate a number of areas that prior administrations had regulated. For example, not even a week ago, people here were complaining about the administration's move to deregulate PFAS: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45239803 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45239803 Say what you will about the wisdom of the change, they aren't replacing that power vacuum with direct executive power. This administration is not canonically left, nor right, and it certainly isn't "authoritarian" by any traditional definition.
    - riedel 1y ago
      What does 'a correct' mean to you? Wikipedia says: > Authoritarianism is a political system characterized by the rejection of political plurality, the use of strong central power to preserve the political status quo, and reductions in democracy, separation of powers, civil liberties, and the rule of law. As an outsider from Europe, it seems that is pretty much spot on to me. In Europe this probably applies to Hungary as well.
      - timr 1y ago
        First of all, Wikipedia is useless for definitions of words that are in the middle of active political debate. You completely ignored the definition I gave you (which is from an impartial source [1]) in favor of one you prefer, from a wiki. Setting that aside, you will see the that the citation for that definition [2] basically underscores the ambiguity of the term: > Political scientists have outlined elaborated typologies of authoritarianism, from which it is not easy to draw a generally accepted definition; it seems that its main features are the non-acceptance of conflict and plurality as normal elements of politics, the will to preserve the status quo and prevent change by keeping all political dynamics under close control by a strong central power, and lastly, the erosion of the rule of law, the division of powers, and democratic voting procedures. I challenge you to defend the proposition that the current administration is attempting to "prevent change by keeping all political dynamics under close control by a strong central power", while simultaneously clearly acting to undermine many parts of said authority. There are actions by every administration that appear to be "authoritarian" when taken in isolation. The parts about erosion of rule of law, etc. are clearly also applied to the current administration, but again, are mostly debatable -- these EOs are either within the power of the executive under current law, or they're overturned by the courts. I openly grant that our legislative branch has been on a 50+ year mission to abdicate responsibility to the executive, but that's neither exclusive to the current administration, nor is it "authoritarianism" to use the authorities granted to you under the law, and again, it's not unique for US administrations to overstep the law and be pulled back by the judicial. [1] https://languages.oup.com/google-dictionary-en/ https://languages.oup.com/google-dictionary-en/ [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Authoritarianism#cite_note-Cerutti-2 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Authoritarianism#cite_note-Cer...
zem 1y ago
a quick google search for "modi authoritarian" would have given you tons of hits talking about it, with documented incidents and policies to back them up. calling it "just not liking modi" does the people justifiably alarmed about what he is doing to the country a great disservice.
- JuniperMesos 1y ago
  That's precisely my point - people will call any country doing something that they dislike "authoritarian". There's no way for me to verify that without spending a bunch of time learning about what specifically Modi is doing that previous Indian political leaders weren't, and evaluate that in the context of Indian politics in general. This is a difficult enough problem when it comes to evaluating what political pundits are saying around your own country and society, and I am well aware that I don't have more than a cursory, outsider's understanding of anything at all that is actually going on in India.

crop_rotation 1y ago

I mean authoritarianism in India is far worse than what Trump can do at his worst, so their displeasure is not unwarranted.

rammer 1y ago
Absolute bollocks, do you actually know anything about India and what's happening in the last 10 years. Easy being a keyboard warrior when you don't have to provide any justification.
- crop_rotation 1y ago
  What part is bollocks? Please enlighten me on what radical transformation has happened in the last 10 years to make India less authoritarian, I can only see it increasing in the last 10 years. And yes I am very aware of what is happening, having seen the ground reality in tons of different places both urban and rural.

decremental 1y ago

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timr 1y ago

Few people actually know what "authoritarian" means, and are mostly just repeating things they've heard and intend to mean as "leaders doing things I don't personally like." A strict definition of "authoritarian" [1] doesn't fit the current US administration at all in many ways, since they've focused their attention on tearing down government, not building it up. In some ways they demand stricter enforcement of (pre-existing!) rules, but in many others they have acted to undermine government authority (e.g. with respect to environmental regulations). Generally the people who decry authoritarianism in the domain of immigration enforcement will turn around and decry loosening of regulations about things that they prefer to be regulated by the government. [1] "favoring or enforcing strict obedience to authority, especially that of the government, at the expense of personal freedom." per Google's definition.

tenuousemphasis 1y ago
They are filling every power vacuum they create with direct executive power. Pure authoritarianism.
- timr 1y ago
  > They are filling every power vacuum they create with direct executive power. Pure authoritarianism. I just gave you a correct definition of authoritarianism, and that isn't it. It's also untrue -- this administration has rather aggressively moved to deregulate a number of areas that prior administrations had regulated. For example, not even a week ago, people here were complaining about the administration's move to deregulate PFAS: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45239803 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45239803 Say what you will about the wisdom of the change, they aren't replacing that power vacuum with direct executive power. This administration is not canonically left, nor right, and it certainly isn't "authoritarian" by any traditional definition.
  - riedel 1y ago
    What does 'a correct' mean to you? Wikipedia says: > Authoritarianism is a political system characterized by the rejection of political plurality, the use of strong central power to preserve the political status quo, and reductions in democracy, separation of powers, civil liberties, and the rule of law. As an outsider from Europe, it seems that is pretty much spot on to me. In Europe this probably applies to Hungary as well.
    - timr 1y ago
      First of all, Wikipedia is useless for definitions of words that are in the middle of active political debate. You completely ignored the definition I gave you (which is from an impartial source [1]) in favor of one you prefer, from a wiki. Setting that aside, you will see the that the citation for that definition [2] basically underscores the ambiguity of the term: > Political scientists have outlined elaborated typologies of authoritarianism, from which it is not easy to draw a generally accepted definition; it seems that its main features are the non-acceptance of conflict and plurality as normal elements of politics, the will to preserve the status quo and prevent change by keeping all political dynamics under close control by a strong central power, and lastly, the erosion of the rule of law, the division of powers, and democratic voting procedures. I challenge you to defend the proposition that the current administration is attempting to "prevent change by keeping all political dynamics under close control by a strong central power", while simultaneously clearly acting to undermine many parts of said authority. There are actions by every administration that appear to be "authoritarian" when taken in isolation. The parts about erosion of rule of law, etc. are clearly also applied to the current administration, but again, are mostly debatable -- these EOs are either within the power of the executive under current law, or they're overturned by the courts. I openly grant that our legislative branch has been on a 50+ year mission to abdicate responsibility to the executive, but that's neither exclusive to the current administration, nor is it "authoritarianism" to use the authorities granted to you under the law, and again, it's not unique for US administrations to overstep the law and be pulled back by the judicial. [1] https://languages.oup.com/google-dictionary-en/ https://languages.oup.com/google-dictionary-en/ [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Authoritarianism#cite_note-Cerutti-2 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Authoritarianism#cite_note-Cer...

zem 1y ago

a quick google search for "modi authoritarian" would have given you tons of hits talking about it, with documented incidents and policies to back them up. calling it "just not liking modi" does the people justifiably alarmed about what he is doing to the country a great disservice.

JuniperMesos 1y ago
That's precisely my point - people will call any country doing something that they dislike "authoritarian". There's no way for me to verify that without spending a bunch of time learning about what specifically Modi is doing that previous Indian political leaders weren't, and evaluate that in the context of Indian politics in general. This is a difficult enough problem when it comes to evaluating what political pundits are saying around your own country and society, and I am well aware that I don't have more than a cursory, outsider's understanding of anything at all that is actually going on in India.