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90% of Chinese own their own properties vs 65% of Americans, so there's that. Regarding property rights, I'm not sure how it works there but we've all seen the

90% of Chinese own their own properties vs 65% of Americans, so there's that. Regarding property rights, I'm not sure how it works there but we've all seen the malls and highways that diverted around homes where owners were unwilling to sell out. Also, they actually have functional public infrastructure and have brought something like 800 million out of abject poverty. Are ahead of us in several spaces and about to pass us or at least equal us in others. Obviously I'm not arguing for that type of top down authoritarian system, but this is the objective reality. What's bizarre actually is all the denialism and copium over China - should we not be glad that they are doing better than they were 30 years ago and much more liberal than before?

monero-xmr 1y ago
Give the average person in china the opportunity to move to America, and vice versa, there is no comparison. China has done some things right but to pretend it is some model for America is absurd
- yibg 1y ago
  This is a pretty outdated view of things too. Majority of chinese students return to china after getting their degree in the US.
  - yadaeno 1y ago
    That is in large part to our nightmare immigration system.
- what-the-grump 1y ago
  The average person in America is living paycheck to paycheck and has negative equity. 20 years ago you couldn’t see in Shanghai. Trump pulled back the clean air act, it’s not hard to see a trend. It’s also not hard to buy a ticket and see it yourself.
  - cpursley 1y ago
    Great point, I almost wrote that they’ve cleaned up pollution (of all types) by a lot and also are accomplish some impressive feats by regreening and pushing back desertification. Amazing things can happen when you get your peoples basic needs met (ie, they can focus on higher level stuff).
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]
  - esbranson 1y ago
    Regarding "not owning anything", I think you need to look up communism and consider if that's better there.
    - grafmax 1y ago
      60% of Americans live paycheck to paycheck. It depends on which Americans you are looking at if you want to understand who capitalist ownership is benefiting.
      - esbranson 1y ago
        100% of communists own nothing and live bureaucrat to bureaucrat. It does not depend on which Americans we are looking at to know who is benefiting.
        what-the-grump 1y ago
        But thats not the reality of China right? People own cars, apartments, TVs, refrigerators, they are not distributed centrally.
- reilly3000 1y ago
  I would absolutely take a chance to live in China, but I wouldn’t expect to be welcomed there. Their tech, disposable income, food costs, etc are so superior to what we have today in US.
  - ipaddr 1y ago
    Many Americans live in China. Give it a shot.
  - snarf_br 1y ago
    [flagged]
  - esbranson 1y ago
    "Superior". 你不是认真人. Though you would probably be welcomed.
- cpursley 1y ago
  Yo, I literally pointed out that I’m not for this model. But thanks for the comment?
Scoundreller 1y ago
> 90% of Chinese own their own properties By "own" you mean 70 year leases with ??? renewal conditions? > Urban land use rights in Mainland China were typically granted for fixed terms: 70 years for residential, 50 years for office or industrial, and 40 years for commercial purposes. As these terms approach expiration, the question of renewal becomes paramount. The legal framework, primarily the Property Law and the Urban Real Estate Administration Law, provides a general outline but leaves specific implementation to local governments. > Mainland China’s Property Law (Article 149) and The Civil Code of Mainland China (Article 359) guarantee automatic residential land use right renewals but provides no specific arrangement in respect of non-residential terms. Currently, without detailed implementation guidelines, local governments devise varied approaches, skewing valuations and unsettling investors. This uncertainty hinders market efficiency. https://www.cushmanwakefield.com/en/greater-china/insights/blog/navigating-mainland-chinas-land-use-right-renewal-landscape https://www.cushmanwakefield.com/en/greater-china/insights/b... But yeah, you could argue that you have to pay property taxes in USA and if you don't, you'll eventually lose your land
- jimmydoe 1y ago
  If you follow the public policy discussions in China, you’ll likely notice more complication surrounding the 70-year leases. Basically everyone already feel they own the property, the government’s forceful attempt to reclaim property would be counterproductive and unlikely to succeed. Additionally, many government officials are not particularly fond of this policy. They prefer property tax like US. Individuals currently do not pay property tax in China, they are reluctant to pay property tax and argue that they have indirectly paid them when purchasing property. Consequently, the property tax and ownership restructuring are essentially stuck in a stalemate.
- akk0 1y ago
  I agree that that is a meaningful difference, but since I expect to be be on my last legs at best 70 years from now, it really doesn't make much of a difference to me, especially when contrasted to here where my home owning plans amount to little more than "hopefully the housing market will collapse"

monero-xmr 1y ago

Give the average person in china the opportunity to move to America, and vice versa, there is no comparison. China has done some things right but to pretend it is some model for America is absurd

yibg 1y ago
This is a pretty outdated view of things too. Majority of chinese students return to china after getting their degree in the US.
- yadaeno 1y ago
  That is in large part to our nightmare immigration system.
what-the-grump 1y ago
The average person in America is living paycheck to paycheck and has negative equity. 20 years ago you couldn’t see in Shanghai. Trump pulled back the clean air act, it’s not hard to see a trend. It’s also not hard to buy a ticket and see it yourself.
- cpursley 1y ago
  Great point, I almost wrote that they’ve cleaned up pollution (of all types) by a lot and also are accomplish some impressive feats by regreening and pushing back desertification. Amazing things can happen when you get your peoples basic needs met (ie, they can focus on higher level stuff).
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
- esbranson 1y ago
  Regarding "not owning anything", I think you need to look up communism and consider if that's better there.
  - grafmax 1y ago
    60% of Americans live paycheck to paycheck. It depends on which Americans you are looking at if you want to understand who capitalist ownership is benefiting.
    - esbranson 1y ago
      100% of communists own nothing and live bureaucrat to bureaucrat. It does not depend on which Americans we are looking at to know who is benefiting.
      - what-the-grump 1y ago
        But thats not the reality of China right? People own cars, apartments, TVs, refrigerators, they are not distributed centrally.
reilly3000 1y ago
I would absolutely take a chance to live in China, but I wouldn’t expect to be welcomed there. Their tech, disposable income, food costs, etc are so superior to what we have today in US.
- ipaddr 1y ago
  Many Americans live in China. Give it a shot.
- snarf_br 1y ago
  [flagged]
- esbranson 1y ago
  "Superior". 你不是认真人. Though you would probably be welcomed.
cpursley 1y ago
Yo, I literally pointed out that I’m not for this model. But thanks for the comment?

Scoundreller 1y ago

> 90% of Chinese own their own properties By "own" you mean 70 year leases with ??? renewal conditions? > Urban land use rights in Mainland China were typically granted for fixed terms: 70 years for residential, 50 years for office or industrial, and 40 years for commercial purposes. As these terms approach expiration, the question of renewal becomes paramount. The legal framework, primarily the Property Law and the Urban Real Estate Administration Law, provides a general outline but leaves specific implementation to local governments. > Mainland China’s Property Law (Article 149) and The Civil Code of Mainland China (Article 359) guarantee automatic residential land use right renewals but provides no specific arrangement in respect of non-residential terms. Currently, without detailed implementation guidelines, local governments devise varied approaches, skewing valuations and unsettling investors. This uncertainty hinders market efficiency. https://www.cushmanwakefield.com/en/greater-china/insights/blog/navigating-mainland-chinas-land-use-right-renewal-landscape https://www.cushmanwakefield.com/en/greater-china/insights/b... But yeah, you could argue that you have to pay property taxes in USA and if you don't, you'll eventually lose your land

jimmydoe 1y ago
If you follow the public policy discussions in China, you’ll likely notice more complication surrounding the 70-year leases. Basically everyone already feel they own the property, the government’s forceful attempt to reclaim property would be counterproductive and unlikely to succeed. Additionally, many government officials are not particularly fond of this policy. They prefer property tax like US. Individuals currently do not pay property tax in China, they are reluctant to pay property tax and argue that they have indirectly paid them when purchasing property. Consequently, the property tax and ownership restructuring are essentially stuck in a stalemate.
akk0 1y ago
I agree that that is a meaningful difference, but since I expect to be be on my last legs at best 70 years from now, it really doesn't make much of a difference to me, especially when contrasted to here where my home owning plans amount to little more than "hopefully the housing market will collapse"