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Gig work is actually totally fine with an adequate welfare state and reduced work week. Too bad China has neither of those things!
by Ericson2314 1y ago
Gig work is actually totally fine with an adequate welfare state and reduced work week.
Too bad China has neither of those things!
- JKCalhoun 1y agoThinking lately how it mirrors "piece work" that, I think, countries like Japan used to have (still have?).
- analog31 1y agoPiece work was one of the driving forces behind labor union movements.
- pessimizer 1y ago"Piece work" is an English phrase because it was common in the UK and America.
- JKCalhoun 1y agoI'm reacting to having seen it in "The Twilight Samurai" and perhaps other Japanese films depicting that era.
- stevenwoo 1y agoFrom this podcast - all clothing that is mass produced is still made this way - even in the USA. https://www.npr.org/2025/07/11/1255526971/garment-workers-clothing-made-in-usa https://www.npr.org/2025/07/11/1255526971/garment-workers-cl...
- John23832 1y agoYou had me at the first sentence. My fingers were itching to comment.
- skrebbel 1y agoI know little about China, but every so often I meet someone who's rather fond of it (usually a passionate hardcore leftie¹), and says stuff like "in China nobody is unemployed, in China nobody is homeless" because apparently somehow the state provides (bad, but existing) work and housing for everyone. This seems to directly oppose your comment that China has no welfare state. Who is right? ¹) for context, here in NL "America good China bad" is a bit less clear-cut than in the US, where I assume most people read this comment from. That said at least the "China bad" part is still the majority opinion by far.
- Ericson2314 1y agoAs a "softcare leftie", my understanding is that China does in fact have a weak welfare state. I think it's better for pensioners than working-age poor — typical gerontocracy. I think some healthcare stuff exists on paper but it sucks.
- skrebbel 1y agoAppreciate your response, thanks for the clarity. I think whoever downvoted me thought I was being insincere but I really wasn't - it's not a weird idea to expect a country that calls itself communist to have something resembling a welfare state!
- Ericson2314 1y agoA lot of people like to say "China is actually a lot like America" with a big smirk - plenty conservatism - weak welfare state - big - diverse-ish, but with single dominant ethnic group - aging gerontocracy (but that's everywhere) - real estate fetish
- seanmcdirmid 1y ago95% Han China is way less diverse than 60% white America.
- Fade_Dance 1y ago
- ThomPete 1y agoWhat revenue is that welfare state based on?
- Ericson2314 1y agoLabor income, just as before?
- mytailorisrich 1y agoIf you are self-employed and paid by the job/hour "reduced work week" is not really viable. This applies in Europe, too.
- Ericson2314 1y agoWhere in an equilibrium where gig wages are too low, because the precarity means the gig worker is desperate. With enough welfare state, the gig worker wouldn't be so desperate, and gig rates would go up. Of course they would push some employers back to permenant employment, but this is fine. It would be like spot market vs longer term deals for everything else. I'm convinced the length of the workweek is totally exogenous. I don't think there is a feedback mechanism within capitalism to adjust it. This is actually a bummer.
- mytailorisrich 1y agoJobs like food delivery for Deliveroo, etc. are very low productivity and consumers are not willing to pay a lot for delivery. This type of jobs can only be paid at the low end. Rates don't go up, they can't. What's happening s is that those jobs and services disappear. That's good if that leads to higher productivity, better paid jobs, but not if that leads to unemployment. This has an impact on the length of the workweek, too. But in any case all self-employed must decide whether they can afford to cut their hours or if they can commercially. The "welfare state" must be paid for somehow, too.
- Ericson2314 1y agoIf it's too low productivity then it shouldn't exist. This is, mathematically speaking, orthogonal to gig vs non-gig.
- mytailorisrich 1y agoThis sounds like a value judgment or authoritarian edict. Luckily in a free society this is not for anyone to decide.
- aeonfox 1y agoDoesn't gig work sidestep the mandated work week and other hard won employer obligations like holiday pay, health insurance, workers' safety, retirement benefits, etc? Or is your point that with adequate welfare there would be no gig workers?
- avdelazeri 1y agoIf someone is working but still needs welfare then the state is just subsiding company payrolls by indirect means. Strongly disagree that gig work is fine as long as there is welfare.