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The comments here are awful. What happened to “Hacker” news? This is a Linux phone that actually works, running Debian. It has a battery that competes with the

The comments here are awful. What happened to “Hacker” news? This is a Linux phone that actually works, running Debian. It has a battery that competes with the runtime of any modern phone. It has a snappy UI and can reliably make calls. Already it’s the best Linux phone in the world, just on that basis. They’re selling it for the same price as the outgoing model despite tons of bullshit tariffs being levied against them. What an achievement! I want a Linux phone that works, and I want to support a world where Linux phones exist and are financially viable to make, therefore I will buy this as my next phone.

p_ing 1y ago
> Already it’s the best Linux phone in the world, That is a vanishingly low bar, apparently. We don't need to praise something just because it is FOSS. With it's quite old hardware and limited software it instantly becomes unattractive for many.
- numpad0 1y ago
  That was always the challenge for computer phones, to get the phone part of the phone work. There's been many Wi-Fi only PDAs, non-calling data cards for those, non-calling but cellular-enabled ones, etc. before iOS/Android happened.
throwaway74354 1y ago
>I want a Linux phone that works That's Jolla C2 or some Sailfish-compatible Xperia 10. Both GNOME Shell in the phone context and Plasma Mobile are evolutionary dead ends.
- fooqux 1y ago
  > Both GNOME Shell in the phone context and Plasma Mobile are evolutionary dead ends. That's a hell of a hot take. Could you elaborate on why you think so?
  - throwaway74354 1y ago
    Phone UI paradigm isn't as easy as "Let's just scale down the Desktop/Tablet applications". In case of Sailfish OS development history, migration from clunky, but closer to Desktop, Hildon framework of Maemo 5 to purpose-built Qt applications of Maemo/MeeGo Harmattan was obvious quality boost. Same with webOS and UBports: app ecosystem starting from scratch within their corresponding "DE"s. If convergence-style cross-device applications were somewhat easily achievable, that would've happened in the early 2010s (Windows Phone / Windows RT? Ubuntu Touch getting more attention from investors?). It's the same story why Android Tablets suck and iPadOS doesn't, but in other direction. And/or, it's a simple matter of time/money being spent on streamlining the experience. It's not like Sailfish OS is perfect (Qt6 migration is way overdue), but Jolla has already figured out lots of integration details which will become teething problems for Droidian and such. Including, but not limited to VoLTE support.
    - cosmic_cheese 1y ago
      I'm not convinced that convergent UI works either. The needs of desktop and mobile just differ too greatly. That doesn't mean that the two can't be served by the same UI framework, but at minimum you need two sets of widgets and separate desktop/mobile layouts in order to not either make the desktop experience dumbed down or end up with a mobile experience that's awkward to use with touch. The padding and control size in GNOME feels completely goofy on a desktop machine for example and reduces the usability of 12"-13" laptops with how much space is eaten up by blank space.
      - dlivingston 1y ago
        > I'm not convinced that convergent UI works either. The needs of desktop and mobile just differ too greatly. For the record, I agree. But I've been playing with Apple's new Liquid Glass UI on macOS / iOS and I think they've done a pretty good job of defining platform-agnostic UI primitives and layouts with some platform-specific rules when needed. It's a big redesign that covers desktop / mobile / tablet / TV. They did a pretty clever job of it, though the desktop experience suffers slightly (of course).
Hamcha 1y ago
My biggest question is if they use Halium/libhybrys at all, something that is hard to figure out from the marketing but their GitHub repos does have hybris-related stuff. That makes it a non-Linux device to me. Hybris breaks a lot of linux stuff that should just work like flatpak, something I found out incredibly quickly when using SailfishOS. I don't think depending on Android drivers and having to run a small android just to access said hardware makes it a "linux phone". Especially when the linux experience is compromised because of it. postmarketOS has no hybris and everything works great, but no device has all the drivers (in fact, no device at all is reported as having a fully functioning camera, let alone everything else) so there isn't a "flagship" device. If I were to overspend on a linux device I want it to actually run Linux, not a handicapped version of it. And even then, why stop at the OS? Why is this overpriced "linux" phone not boast having user-friendly and sustainable things like a replaceable battery (probably because it doesn't?). People in this niche don't want just a Linux phone, they want a phone that respects them.
- upheaval7276 1y ago
  I agree with you, and especially identify with the last sentence. However, I’m fed up with Apple and Google, and any alternative that doesn’t tie me to Google and has all functioning hardware and usable 5G or at least LTE with reasonable specs is a major win in my book. I’ve preordered the FLX1s. The FLX1, which is no longer in production, had a replaceable battery, but lack of a replaceable battery or non-pure Linux in an alternative phone certainly isn’t going to keep me chained to Apple or Google.
- toasteros 1y ago
  It uses halium and libhybris. Flatpak apps work perfectly fine on my FLX1. I have no usability issues with the phone at all.
  - thephotonsphere 1y ago
    you don't really need flatpak
    - 1y ago
NaomiLehman 1y ago
I think just like "Made in the US," a lot of people say they want one, but most really don't, due to either price, hardware, and/or software drawbacks.
- nine_k 1y ago
  Many want one, fewer agree to afford.
pkphilip 1y ago
True. This seems like an amazing device especially given the total B.S Google and Apple have been throwing at us. I would buy this in a heartbeat if it were available in my country.
christophilus 1y ago
Hear hear. I’m excited about this and may get one just to support the cause even though my iPhone 13 mini is still just fine.
dang 1y ago
> The comments here are awful. What happened to “Hacker” news? The contrarian dynamic strikes again: https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=%22contrarian%20dynamic%22&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que... Your comment is a good example of a corrective post, and the upvotes are deserved, but they get extra energy from this objecting-to-the-objections quality. On the internet, everybody needs something to object to!
- bigyabai 1y ago
  > but they get extra energy from this objecting-to-the-objections quality. Should they not? It would be unfair "extra energy" if the comments were fair criticisms, but they're not in the spirit of hacker or entrepreneurial culture. The parent seems to be arguing that most of these comments are entirely ignoring who the product is for to leap to hardware comparisons pre-hoc. And I agree with that conclusion; there is nothing intellectually stimulating or helpful in a discussion about how a dev kit appeals to the broader consumer market.
  - ploxiln 1y ago
    Sometimes it seems like half the comment sections (but probably more like 20% lol) have a "what is wrong with all of you" as the top-rated comment, and I have to scroll way down, 5 or 10 top-level comments, before I find an example that it was referring to. It seems to get more votes by dramatizing the "going against the mainstream", when really it is the mainstream. (Which is kinda sad, but not really the worst thing in world, probably a perennial part of human society ...)
    - johnisgood 1y ago
      Check out my not-so-mainstream comments! They are usually down-voted to oblivion, not up-voted. :P
drnick1 1y ago
I think the crucial issue here is Android app compatibility. Desktop Linux programs aren't suited for use on mobile devices; the experience is inevitably poor. Android compatibility is claimed, but no information beyond that is provided. If this device does not run at the very least any app that does not depend on Google Play, e.g. apps from F-Droid, it's dead on arrival. In that case, you are much better off with a Pixel running GrapheneOS. Graphene is very polished and has 100% compatibility with Android. Everything just works and the user experience is as good as an official Android device, only free of Google spyware.
- gf000 1y ago
  And let's be honest, it's not like there hasn't been spent a decade or more, with thousands of developers working tirelessly on making Android as good as it is today. Like linux laptops not burning up immediately is itself a change upstreamed from android development, but that's just half of the story. A mobile OS fundamentally needs a different application model -- apps can't just decide to run whenever they like. How will desktop GIMP know that it shouldn't waste my battery when in the background (unless it very specially requests it throuhg an API made just for that)? Does suspending it work as you expect? For how long will you suspend it, shouldn't you kill it as well after a while? Who saves stuff? I can't help but feel that anyone strongly advocating for a GNU Linux phone (because let's be honest, Android is the linux phone) is just not familiar with the actual context of what it entails.
  - mixmastamyk 1y ago
    No one is running gimp on their phone, besides for laughs. There are a number mobile-centric apps in the repos, stick to them and you'll be fine.
    - drnick1 1y ago
      The issue is that the mobile-centric apps are few and far fetween, and not nearly as polished as the Android ecosystem.
kingforaday 1y ago
I saw dang's comment of praise here for your post, which is meant to highlight "hackers" bringing something new to the market. Got it, but your post's comments of praise is vacuous if you don't own one and speak from first-hand knowledge. How can you praise it as a phone "that actually works" if you don't own one?
seba_dos1 1y ago
It doesn't run Debian, it runs (a fork of) Droidian which relies on Android layer underneath. There are other Linux phones that do actually run Debian and don't rely on Android.
- ekianjo 1y ago
  You are referring to postmaketOS for which the project leaders themselves claim there is no flagship device where everything works as expected?
  - lproven 1y ago
    No. I don't know what they are referring to, I can't speak for them, but... • postmarketOS is unrelated to Debian. • postmarketOS is based on Alpine. • FuriLabs does not use Alpine or postmarketOS. • FuriOS is Droidian is a Debian derivative. • FuriOS is Debian running on an Android kernel, with Android in a container you can stop and start on demand. Nothing you claimed applies here.
  - linmob 1y ago
    I think seba_dos1 refers to PureOS [0] (for the Librem 5; PureOS is essentially a FSF-endorsed Debian) and Mobian [1]. Both use a close-to-mainline kernel, Mobian's goal is to "bring Debian to mobile devices. Over time, the idea is to minimize the Mobian specific pieces by “upstreaming” customization to the original projects." [0]: https://pureos.net/ https://pureos.net/ [1]: https://wiki.debian.org/Mobian/ https://wiki.debian.org/Mobian/
hardwaresofton 1y ago
> The comments here are awful. What happened to “Hacker” news? It’s funny because excessive negativity is peak HN (see: Dropbox post) but yeah, it’s amazing how many people are focused on how this couldn’t/doesn’t work than got it could/does. I bought 4 Firefox phones, am itching for hardware that I truly own in the age of AI, and I’m ready to be hurt again.
- red369 1y ago
  Thank you for doing God's work. I wish I'd bought a Firefox phone - I would have been burned, but some people need to be for us to get anywhere. I tried to make up for it by buying an early generation FrameWork laptop. Edit: If you notice that this does not match with another comment I've made saying I wouldn't buy this because of the size, I can only offer as a defence that I'm also trying to vote with my wallet about the size of phones so I'm torn. I think it's probably better on balance to have a small phone that does everything that it should perfectly, and live with the compromise of living with the walled garden, while still being small to easily hold and encourage me to go and use a more appropriate device than something I've pulled from my pocket for any task that requires staring at a screen.
  - hardwaresofton 1y ago
    > Thank you for doing God's work. I wish I'd bought a Firefox phone - I would have been burned, but some people need to be for us to get anywhere. I tried to make up for it by buying an early generation FrameWork laptop. Good news, it’s not too late, I still have 2 FX0s and 2 others (jk but if you’re in Tokyo maybe not jk) Also not sure I was doing God’s work, the second app (PWA) I made for FirefoxOS was a Tinder clone using their undocumented API And definitely no problem with people not buying, not everyone is a first adopter and that’s fine (I’m not either). That said a slightly too large phone is probably not a high price to pay for appreciably more freedom, just my 2c
red369 1y ago
> This is a Linux phone that actually works, running Debian. It has a battery that competes with the runtime of any modern phone. It has a snappy UI and can reliably make calls. Already it’s the best Linux phone in the world, just on that basis. "Shut up and take my mo... 170mm x 76 mm, 201g? Sigh - never mind!" Sorry for adding one more awful comment. If they make a mini version, I will absolutely put my money where my mouth is.
Kwpolska 1y ago
> Linux phone that actually works Then why do all photos of this phone show the logo, not the actual OS it’s running? If it’s running something that is not Android, I would expect a page how the OS actually looks and works before considering it a serious, working alternative to Android.
lanfeust6 1y ago
I'm glad for this release but I think users are cynical because of the state of things since the Pinephone and Purism releases. There had been what felt like very little progress towards a "daily driver" device. Mind you I think Sailfish has shown it's doable a long time, but this is cast aside for being paid.
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
anacrolix 1y ago
It never was, it's VC news
a3w 1y ago
The phone for Furries? Count my furry friends in!
- blacksmith_tb 1y ago
  Har har - from their FAQ[1]: Furi is pronounced “Fury”. FuriOS is pronounced “Furious”. We simply couldn’t afford the Fury part of the domain names. 1: https://furilabs.com/faq/ https://furilabs.com/faq/

p_ing 1y ago

> Already it’s the best Linux phone in the world, That is a vanishingly low bar, apparently. We don't need to praise something just because it is FOSS. With it's quite old hardware and limited software it instantly becomes unattractive for many.

numpad0 1y ago
That was always the challenge for computer phones, to get the phone part of the phone work. There's been many Wi-Fi only PDAs, non-calling data cards for those, non-calling but cellular-enabled ones, etc. before iOS/Android happened.

throwaway74354 1y ago

>I want a Linux phone that works That's Jolla C2 or some Sailfish-compatible Xperia 10. Both GNOME Shell in the phone context and Plasma Mobile are evolutionary dead ends.

fooqux 1y ago
> Both GNOME Shell in the phone context and Plasma Mobile are evolutionary dead ends. That's a hell of a hot take. Could you elaborate on why you think so?
- throwaway74354 1y ago
  Phone UI paradigm isn't as easy as "Let's just scale down the Desktop/Tablet applications". In case of Sailfish OS development history, migration from clunky, but closer to Desktop, Hildon framework of Maemo 5 to purpose-built Qt applications of Maemo/MeeGo Harmattan was obvious quality boost. Same with webOS and UBports: app ecosystem starting from scratch within their corresponding "DE"s. If convergence-style cross-device applications were somewhat easily achievable, that would've happened in the early 2010s (Windows Phone / Windows RT? Ubuntu Touch getting more attention from investors?). It's the same story why Android Tablets suck and iPadOS doesn't, but in other direction. And/or, it's a simple matter of time/money being spent on streamlining the experience. It's not like Sailfish OS is perfect (Qt6 migration is way overdue), but Jolla has already figured out lots of integration details which will become teething problems for Droidian and such. Including, but not limited to VoLTE support.
  - cosmic_cheese 1y ago
    I'm not convinced that convergent UI works either. The needs of desktop and mobile just differ too greatly. That doesn't mean that the two can't be served by the same UI framework, but at minimum you need two sets of widgets and separate desktop/mobile layouts in order to not either make the desktop experience dumbed down or end up with a mobile experience that's awkward to use with touch. The padding and control size in GNOME feels completely goofy on a desktop machine for example and reduces the usability of 12"-13" laptops with how much space is eaten up by blank space.
    - dlivingston 1y ago
      > I'm not convinced that convergent UI works either. The needs of desktop and mobile just differ too greatly. For the record, I agree. But I've been playing with Apple's new Liquid Glass UI on macOS / iOS and I think they've done a pretty good job of defining platform-agnostic UI primitives and layouts with some platform-specific rules when needed. It's a big redesign that covers desktop / mobile / tablet / TV. They did a pretty clever job of it, though the desktop experience suffers slightly (of course).

Hamcha 1y ago

My biggest question is if they use Halium/libhybrys at all, something that is hard to figure out from the marketing but their GitHub repos does have hybris-related stuff. That makes it a non-Linux device to me. Hybris breaks a lot of linux stuff that should just work like flatpak, something I found out incredibly quickly when using SailfishOS. I don't think depending on Android drivers and having to run a small android just to access said hardware makes it a "linux phone". Especially when the linux experience is compromised because of it. postmarketOS has no hybris and everything works great, but no device has all the drivers (in fact, no device at all is reported as having a fully functioning camera, let alone everything else) so there isn't a "flagship" device. If I were to overspend on a linux device I want it to actually run Linux, not a handicapped version of it. And even then, why stop at the OS? Why is this overpriced "linux" phone not boast having user-friendly and sustainable things like a replaceable battery (probably because it doesn't?). People in this niche don't want just a Linux phone, they want a phone that respects them.

upheaval7276 1y ago
I agree with you, and especially identify with the last sentence. However, I’m fed up with Apple and Google, and any alternative that doesn’t tie me to Google and has all functioning hardware and usable 5G or at least LTE with reasonable specs is a major win in my book. I’ve preordered the FLX1s. The FLX1, which is no longer in production, had a replaceable battery, but lack of a replaceable battery or non-pure Linux in an alternative phone certainly isn’t going to keep me chained to Apple or Google.
toasteros 1y ago
It uses halium and libhybris. Flatpak apps work perfectly fine on my FLX1. I have no usability issues with the phone at all.
- thephotonsphere 1y ago
  you don't really need flatpak
  - 1y ago

NaomiLehman 1y ago

I think just like "Made in the US," a lot of people say they want one, but most really don't, due to either price, hardware, and/or software drawbacks.

nine_k 1y ago
Many want one, fewer agree to afford.

pkphilip 1y ago

True. This seems like an amazing device especially given the total B.S Google and Apple have been throwing at us. I would buy this in a heartbeat if it were available in my country.

christophilus 1y ago

Hear hear. I’m excited about this and may get one just to support the cause even though my iPhone 13 mini is still just fine.

dang 1y ago

> The comments here are awful. What happened to “Hacker” news? The contrarian dynamic strikes again: https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=%22contrarian%20dynamic%22&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que... Your comment is a good example of a corrective post, and the upvotes are deserved, but they get extra energy from this objecting-to-the-objections quality. On the internet, everybody needs something to object to!

bigyabai 1y ago
> but they get extra energy from this objecting-to-the-objections quality. Should they not? It would be unfair "extra energy" if the comments were fair criticisms, but they're not in the spirit of hacker or entrepreneurial culture. The parent seems to be arguing that most of these comments are entirely ignoring who the product is for to leap to hardware comparisons pre-hoc. And I agree with that conclusion; there is nothing intellectually stimulating or helpful in a discussion about how a dev kit appeals to the broader consumer market.
- ploxiln 1y ago
  Sometimes it seems like half the comment sections (but probably more like 20% lol) have a "what is wrong with all of you" as the top-rated comment, and I have to scroll way down, 5 or 10 top-level comments, before I find an example that it was referring to. It seems to get more votes by dramatizing the "going against the mainstream", when really it is the mainstream. (Which is kinda sad, but not really the worst thing in world, probably a perennial part of human society ...)
  - johnisgood 1y ago
    Check out my not-so-mainstream comments! They are usually down-voted to oblivion, not up-voted. :P

drnick1 1y ago

I think the crucial issue here is Android app compatibility. Desktop Linux programs aren't suited for use on mobile devices; the experience is inevitably poor. Android compatibility is claimed, but no information beyond that is provided. If this device does not run at the very least any app that does not depend on Google Play, e.g. apps from F-Droid, it's dead on arrival. In that case, you are much better off with a Pixel running GrapheneOS. Graphene is very polished and has 100% compatibility with Android. Everything just works and the user experience is as good as an official Android device, only free of Google spyware.

gf000 1y ago
And let's be honest, it's not like there hasn't been spent a decade or more, with thousands of developers working tirelessly on making Android as good as it is today. Like linux laptops not burning up immediately is itself a change upstreamed from android development, but that's just half of the story. A mobile OS fundamentally needs a different application model -- apps can't just decide to run whenever they like. How will desktop GIMP know that it shouldn't waste my battery when in the background (unless it very specially requests it throuhg an API made just for that)? Does suspending it work as you expect? For how long will you suspend it, shouldn't you kill it as well after a while? Who saves stuff? I can't help but feel that anyone strongly advocating for a GNU Linux phone (because let's be honest, Android is the linux phone) is just not familiar with the actual context of what it entails.
- mixmastamyk 1y ago
  No one is running gimp on their phone, besides for laughs. There are a number mobile-centric apps in the repos, stick to them and you'll be fine.
  - drnick1 1y ago
    The issue is that the mobile-centric apps are few and far fetween, and not nearly as polished as the Android ecosystem.

kingforaday 1y ago

I saw dang's comment of praise here for your post, which is meant to highlight "hackers" bringing something new to the market. Got it, but your post's comments of praise is vacuous if you don't own one and speak from first-hand knowledge. How can you praise it as a phone "that actually works" if you don't own one?

seba_dos1 1y ago

It doesn't run Debian, it runs (a fork of) Droidian which relies on Android layer underneath. There are other Linux phones that do actually run Debian and don't rely on Android.

ekianjo 1y ago
You are referring to postmaketOS for which the project leaders themselves claim there is no flagship device where everything works as expected?
- lproven 1y ago
  No. I don't know what they are referring to, I can't speak for them, but... • postmarketOS is unrelated to Debian. • postmarketOS is based on Alpine. • FuriLabs does not use Alpine or postmarketOS. • FuriOS is Droidian is a Debian derivative. • FuriOS is Debian running on an Android kernel, with Android in a container you can stop and start on demand. Nothing you claimed applies here.
- linmob 1y ago
  I think seba_dos1 refers to PureOS [0] (for the Librem 5; PureOS is essentially a FSF-endorsed Debian) and Mobian [1]. Both use a close-to-mainline kernel, Mobian's goal is to "bring Debian to mobile devices. Over time, the idea is to minimize the Mobian specific pieces by “upstreaming” customization to the original projects." [0]: https://pureos.net/ https://pureos.net/ [1]: https://wiki.debian.org/Mobian/ https://wiki.debian.org/Mobian/

hardwaresofton 1y ago

> The comments here are awful. What happened to “Hacker” news? It’s funny because excessive negativity is peak HN (see: Dropbox post) but yeah, it’s amazing how many people are focused on how this couldn’t/doesn’t work than got it could/does. I bought 4 Firefox phones, am itching for hardware that I truly own in the age of AI, and I’m ready to be hurt again.

red369 1y ago
Thank you for doing God's work. I wish I'd bought a Firefox phone - I would have been burned, but some people need to be for us to get anywhere. I tried to make up for it by buying an early generation FrameWork laptop. Edit: If you notice that this does not match with another comment I've made saying I wouldn't buy this because of the size, I can only offer as a defence that I'm also trying to vote with my wallet about the size of phones so I'm torn. I think it's probably better on balance to have a small phone that does everything that it should perfectly, and live with the compromise of living with the walled garden, while still being small to easily hold and encourage me to go and use a more appropriate device than something I've pulled from my pocket for any task that requires staring at a screen.
- hardwaresofton 1y ago
  > Thank you for doing God's work. I wish I'd bought a Firefox phone - I would have been burned, but some people need to be for us to get anywhere. I tried to make up for it by buying an early generation FrameWork laptop. Good news, it’s not too late, I still have 2 FX0s and 2 others (jk but if you’re in Tokyo maybe not jk) Also not sure I was doing God’s work, the second app (PWA) I made for FirefoxOS was a Tinder clone using their undocumented API And definitely no problem with people not buying, not everyone is a first adopter and that’s fine (I’m not either). That said a slightly too large phone is probably not a high price to pay for appreciably more freedom, just my 2c

red369 1y ago

> This is a Linux phone that actually works, running Debian. It has a battery that competes with the runtime of any modern phone. It has a snappy UI and can reliably make calls. Already it’s the best Linux phone in the world, just on that basis. "Shut up and take my mo... 170mm x 76 mm, 201g? Sigh - never mind!" Sorry for adding one more awful comment. If they make a mini version, I will absolutely put my money where my mouth is.

Kwpolska 1y ago

> Linux phone that actually works Then why do all photos of this phone show the logo, not the actual OS it’s running? If it’s running something that is not Android, I would expect a page how the OS actually looks and works before considering it a serious, working alternative to Android.

lanfeust6 1y ago

I'm glad for this release but I think users are cynical because of the state of things since the Pinephone and Purism releases. There had been what felt like very little progress towards a "daily driver" device. Mind you I think Sailfish has shown it's doable a long time, but this is cast aside for being paid.

deleted 1y ago

[deleted]

anacrolix 1y ago

It never was, it's VC news

a3w 1y ago

The phone for Furries? Count my furry friends in!

blacksmith_tb 1y ago
Har har - from their FAQ[1]: Furi is pronounced “Fury”. FuriOS is pronounced “Furious”. We simply couldn’t afford the Fury part of the domain names. 1: https://furilabs.com/faq/ https://furilabs.com/faq/