5 ms·

This is exactly correct. The H1B visa has not lived up to its original premise in quite some time. A very significant percentage of people who are now working o

by jb1991 1y ago

This is exactly correct. The H1B visa has not lived up to its original premise in quite some time. A very significant percentage of people who are now working on these visas are not offering anything beyond what is already available within the American workforce, except for lower compensation.

abletonlive 1y ago
I’ve never worked with an H1B software engineer from India that was anything but mediocre. I know they exist and my sample size isn’t huge but at least 3-4 of the H1Bs I’ve directly worked with in the past decade were completely unnecessary and could have been filled by a US citizen
- gorbachev 1y ago
  A very large majority of all software engineers are mediocore or at least not exceptional. I've worked with some extraordinary H1B sw engineers. I would say the ratio of great to mediocore is about the same as for non-H1B sw engineers.
  - kelnos 1y ago
    I think perhaps part of the point being made is that the ratio should not be the same. We should be bringing in higher-than-average and exceptional talent via these visas. If we're just mirroring the skills and talent level of the native workforce, we should be drawing from the native workforce. I don't buy the argument that there's a big shortage of talent for these jobs in the US, especially in a job market like there is right now. Having said that, I do know quite a few people who have been in the US on H-1B visas, and many of them are exceptionally skilled. I think those are the kinds of people we should be granting H-1B visas. I also know quite a few H-1B holders who I wouldn't ever want to work with again, and there are too many people in that group. Not saying there aren't plenty of US citizens I wouldn't want to work with ever again, but that's a separate issue.
  - paulryanrogers 1y ago
    But isn't the point of H1B to bring in exceptional talent? Not create indentured servants of foreign workers?
  - bdangubic 1y ago
    > A very large majority of all software engineers are mediocre I think my HN karma right now would be over 1,000,000 if it wasn't for all the downvotes each time I've said this same thing. I ballpark 95.87% of all SWEs are mediocre-to-less-than-that. I have 30 years of experience behind me to back this up :) This "10x engineer" jazz is really just someone who is good-to-very-good compared to the rest of the crew
  - ipaddr 1y ago
    Mediocre means average. Most people will fit into average. If most H1B are average programmers the ratio wouldn't be equal just based on cultural differences / language and other baseline factors added.
whatever1 1y ago
From the reuters table it seems that the biggest H1B beneficiaries are FAANG. Do you suggest that they check the immigration status and offer to some people lower compensation because of their status?
- mothballed 1y ago
  No need to check immigration status. If they're non-white and have an accent it's already a tell you can lowball them. You'd probably skip over some white europeans with solid English, but lets be real, those people can fake being a US citizen easy enough with some trivially obtained paperwork.
  - whatever1 1y ago
    It appears that you have a strong case of discrimination. You should consider filing a lawsuit. This is precisely what HR and hiring managers at FAANG companies are instructed and trained to avoid.
    - mothballed 1y ago
      I'm speaking in a hypothetical, not something I've witnessed. I doubt anyone ever witnesses it willfully happen. All that is necessary is the incentives be in place for 1) Hiring manager to have incentive to hire quality talent at the most economical price 2) Foreign talent be more desperate than domestic talent The effect is practically guaranteed even if there is exactly zero intent by the hiring manager or any conscious 'discrimination.' Incentives beget results and people may not ponder how they got there, and they often don't. Unless you change (1) or (2) all the discrimination legislation, lawsuits, and 'training' in the world isn't worth the paper it is written on.
  - conartist6 1y ago
    That would be highly illegal: it'd be discrimination on the basis of race (which is protected under the law) rather than on the basis of immigration status (which is not protected).

by jb1991 1y ago

abletonlive 1y ago

I’ve never worked with an H1B software engineer from India that was anything but mediocre. I know they exist and my sample size isn’t huge but at least 3-4 of the H1Bs I’ve directly worked with in the past decade were completely unnecessary and could have been filled by a US citizen

gorbachev 1y ago
A very large majority of all software engineers are mediocore or at least not exceptional. I've worked with some extraordinary H1B sw engineers. I would say the ratio of great to mediocore is about the same as for non-H1B sw engineers.
- kelnos 1y ago
  I think perhaps part of the point being made is that the ratio should not be the same. We should be bringing in higher-than-average and exceptional talent via these visas. If we're just mirroring the skills and talent level of the native workforce, we should be drawing from the native workforce. I don't buy the argument that there's a big shortage of talent for these jobs in the US, especially in a job market like there is right now. Having said that, I do know quite a few people who have been in the US on H-1B visas, and many of them are exceptionally skilled. I think those are the kinds of people we should be granting H-1B visas. I also know quite a few H-1B holders who I wouldn't ever want to work with again, and there are too many people in that group. Not saying there aren't plenty of US citizens I wouldn't want to work with ever again, but that's a separate issue.
- paulryanrogers 1y ago
  But isn't the point of H1B to bring in exceptional talent? Not create indentured servants of foreign workers?
- bdangubic 1y ago
  > A very large majority of all software engineers are mediocre I think my HN karma right now would be over 1,000,000 if it wasn't for all the downvotes each time I've said this same thing. I ballpark 95.87% of all SWEs are mediocre-to-less-than-that. I have 30 years of experience behind me to back this up :) This "10x engineer" jazz is really just someone who is good-to-very-good compared to the rest of the crew
- ipaddr 1y ago
  Mediocre means average. Most people will fit into average. If most H1B are average programmers the ratio wouldn't be equal just based on cultural differences / language and other baseline factors added.

whatever1 1y ago

From the reuters table it seems that the biggest H1B beneficiaries are FAANG. Do you suggest that they check the immigration status and offer to some people lower compensation because of their status?

mothballed 1y ago
No need to check immigration status. If they're non-white and have an accent it's already a tell you can lowball them. You'd probably skip over some white europeans with solid English, but lets be real, those people can fake being a US citizen easy enough with some trivially obtained paperwork.
- whatever1 1y ago
  It appears that you have a strong case of discrimination. You should consider filing a lawsuit. This is precisely what HR and hiring managers at FAANG companies are instructed and trained to avoid.
  - mothballed 1y ago
    I'm speaking in a hypothetical, not something I've witnessed. I doubt anyone ever witnesses it willfully happen. All that is necessary is the incentives be in place for 1) Hiring manager to have incentive to hire quality talent at the most economical price 2) Foreign talent be more desperate than domestic talent The effect is practically guaranteed even if there is exactly zero intent by the hiring manager or any conscious 'discrimination.' Incentives beget results and people may not ponder how they got there, and they often don't. Unless you change (1) or (2) all the discrimination legislation, lawsuits, and 'training' in the world isn't worth the paper it is written on.
- conartist6 1y ago
  That would be highly illegal: it'd be discrimination on the basis of race (which is protected under the law) rather than on the basis of immigration status (which is not protected).