3 ms·

First: I don't believe this. I went to grad school (in physics) with a couple of students who had spent one to five years in industry first. They weren't exactl

First: I don't believe this. I went to grad school (in physics) with a couple of students who had spent one to five years in industry first. They weren't exactly indistinguishable from the other students: my impression is that they had a better idea of why they were there and what they wanted to do once they left, a more finely calibrated sense of what to study and who to work for to advance their chosen careers, and perhaps a slightly shorter time to graduation. They certainly didn't seem to find it much harder than anybody else. (Anecdotal evidence, obviously, and a small data set. You're welcome to bring your own anecdotes if you like, or even data.) Second: I'm not advising that someone work in industry or on a startup for fifteen years and then go back to school. You can sample careers pretty quickly unless that career is "professor". I believe most startups do you the favor of giving you a quick but intense taste of the startup life and then promptly failing, saving you the embarrassment of having to quit. There's also no rule that says you need to sit at your desk at Microsoft until they kick you out: You can work there for a year or three and then go back to school, and the choice is yours. By contrast, it is really hard to leave grad school and then return, so once you're two years in to your Ph.D. program there will be strong incentives to stick around until you're done, even if it takes eight years. The only way out is through, unless you want to become what Matt Groening once called "The Bitterest Person in the World: The Grad-School Dropout". Now, it is true that getting a professorship could take you a very long time, and that you therefore want to start as young as possible so that you still have some youthful vigor left to find a new career after you can't secure a tenured position. But you can spare a handful of years.

timr 18y ago
"Now, it is true that getting a professorship could take you a very long time, and that you therefore want to start as young as possible so that you still have some youthful vigor left to find a new career after you can't secure a tenured position." Ha! I'll add the following quote, which I think is brilliant: "Two years in [to a PhD program], and quitting will be like gnawing your own leg off." (from: http://www.swarthmore.edu/SocSci/tburke1/gradschool.html http://www.swarthmore.edu/SocSci/tburke1/gradschool.html, which is one of the better interweb answers to the "should I go to grad school?" question.)
- Tichy 18y ago
  He doesn't say why it should feel that way, or does he? It is great if somebody is sharing advice, but that person sounds a bit like "yeah, I made it through grad school, but I highly doubt that you have what it takes to do the same".
  - timr 18y ago
    Not really: "If you decide in your first year that it is not for you--indeed, suppose you conclude that you're better than all of this, a broader, richer thinker who can't be constrained by the ivory tower--you will still have to deal with the nagging fear that somehow, some way, you just weren't good enough, that you couldn't cut the mustard. That fear will almost certainly be wrong. Perseverance can get most students through graduate school. You should feel good about how well you know yourself if you decide to quit. But academia is a total culture. It changes your standards for what is good and what is bad, what is smart and what is dumb." I don't think there's anything in his writing that suggests that you're less of a person if you don't go to grad school, or if you decide to drop out. It's just the culture that encourages you to think this way; you shift your conceptions of good and bad to fit the academic ideal.
- RK 18y ago
  His page seems much more relevant to humanities grad school. Dropping out after two years of engineering/CS/science is called a masters and you go get a job in industry.
Tichy 18y ago
I am 36 now and a PhD seems pretty much unthinkable. I don't need that much money yet, so a startup still seems very much feasible. Investing in a startup at least brings a chance for earning more money, whereas I would consider doing a PhD as mostly for fun. Also, at least in Germany it becomes harder to get grants when you are older. For the common government grants there is an age limit of 30. Many professors seemed to prefer younger student, too. I was about 31 when I started looking for professors to work with, and many said they prefer younger students.

timr 18y ago

"Now, it is true that getting a professorship could take you a very long time, and that you therefore want to start as young as possible so that you still have some youthful vigor left to find a new career after you can't secure a tenured position." Ha! I'll add the following quote, which I think is brilliant: "Two years in [to a PhD program], and quitting will be like gnawing your own leg off." (from: http://www.swarthmore.edu/SocSci/tburke1/gradschool.html http://www.swarthmore.edu/SocSci/tburke1/gradschool.html, which is one of the better interweb answers to the "should I go to grad school?" question.)

Tichy 18y ago
He doesn't say why it should feel that way, or does he? It is great if somebody is sharing advice, but that person sounds a bit like "yeah, I made it through grad school, but I highly doubt that you have what it takes to do the same".
- timr 18y ago
  Not really: "If you decide in your first year that it is not for you--indeed, suppose you conclude that you're better than all of this, a broader, richer thinker who can't be constrained by the ivory tower--you will still have to deal with the nagging fear that somehow, some way, you just weren't good enough, that you couldn't cut the mustard. That fear will almost certainly be wrong. Perseverance can get most students through graduate school. You should feel good about how well you know yourself if you decide to quit. But academia is a total culture. It changes your standards for what is good and what is bad, what is smart and what is dumb." I don't think there's anything in his writing that suggests that you're less of a person if you don't go to grad school, or if you decide to drop out. It's just the culture that encourages you to think this way; you shift your conceptions of good and bad to fit the academic ideal.
RK 18y ago
His page seems much more relevant to humanities grad school. Dropping out after two years of engineering/CS/science is called a masters and you go get a job in industry.

Tichy 18y ago

I am 36 now and a PhD seems pretty much unthinkable. I don't need that much money yet, so a startup still seems very much feasible. Investing in a startup at least brings a chance for earning more money, whereas I would consider doing a PhD as mostly for fun. Also, at least in Germany it becomes harder to get grants when you are older. For the common government grants there is an age limit of 30. Many professors seemed to prefer younger student, too. I was about 31 when I started looking for professors to work with, and many said they prefer younger students.