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Playing “Minecraft” without Minecraft (2024)
- tossit444 1y agoI think it's amazing to have a massive commercially successful game such as Minecraft give the fans the ability to be very liberal with what they can do with it. Now we have open-source re-implementaions that are pretty close to vanilla!
- charcircuit 1y agoIt was like that until 2012. Ever since then they've been tightening down further and further.
- CalRobert 1y agoMS is slowly killing off Java so they can push Bedrock (much less flexible) on everyone though. And all my daughter's friends use Bedrock :-\. I have a server with GeyserMC running to let them play together but it definitely isn't what it once was.
- terribleperson 1y agoBedrock might be more popular, but I think there is a large community with absolutely zero interest in ever moving away from Java. I will never go back to playing Minecraft without Distant Horizons after experiencing it, so Bedrock is absolutely not an option for me unless they added real LOD features natively.
- CalRobert 1y agoThe kids all seem to use tablets or windows with bedrock though, my own are the odd ones out with Java on Linux.
- Imustaskforhelp 1y agoA lot of windows users use java on windows too. I do think that I have yet to see a bedrock player on windows as compared to java player on windows & I have been playing minecraft for so long and joined so many discord communities of minecraft related as well and that's my experience. Java is really peak minecraft, with modpacks as well. You should try out prismlauncher, its open source and works quite smoothly on linux and you can try a lot of modpacks which the bedrock players can't play. Fabuously Optimized is a must have modpack given how efficient it can make minecraft / give fps boosts
- terribleperson 1y agoPrism launcher is a great piece of software, takes a lot of the pain out of modded minecraft.
- squigz 1y agoDistant Horizons is awesome. Too bad my computer really does not agree :P
- terribleperson 1y agoIt's a bit hard on the CPU for sure, but running a server and pregeneration both help.
- Gigachad 1y agoTbh bedrock natively supports massive render distances. Not as far as distant horizons but way way further than Java edition.
- accrual 1y ago> Bedrock might be more popular, but I think there is a large community with absolutely zero interest in ever moving away from Java. Yes, exactly. It seems the demographic for Bedrock tends towards kids because it's supported on tablets. IME the demographic for Java is either older kids or adults or people with interest in modpacks, which is a lot of people. All the major YouTubers who have run worlds for challenges for years are all on Java. Whenever someone in my group asks to play some MC, there's no "Bedrock or Java?" question, it's just Java every time. The only major thing Bedrock has right now that Java doesn't is the new stock shaders, but I assume that is coming to Java soon.
- Kerbiter 1y ago> The only major thing Bedrock has right now that Java doesn't is the new stock shaders, but I assume that is coming to Java soon. RealismCraft 2.0 would like to have a word with you. And it's paid. https://youtu.be/s3IiifuzjgU https://youtu.be/s3IiifuzjgU
- p0w3n3d 1y agoDuring ramblings about new Minecraft jeb_ recently said that java is not going to be sunsetted, or at least that's what I understood. Of course the course of Microsoft and jeb_ might be different and he might get pushed towards some decisions later. The problem is that kids nowadays don't use computers. They use phones and tablets. For me Minecraft experience on phone is awful but there are many young generations that consider it native way of playing games
- ksymph 1y agoNote that you can play Minecraft Java on Android with PojavLauncher: https://github.com/PojavLauncherTeam/PojavLauncher https://github.com/PojavLauncherTeam/PojavLauncher Although I see now that the project is archived, not sure the story behind that.
- grgergo 1y agoIt got forked as Amethyst[1] after it was taken off Google Play and some drama with the privacy policy. [1]: https://github.com/AngelAuraMC/Amethyst-Android/ https://github.com/AngelAuraMC/Amethyst-Android/
- xboxnolifes 1y agoBy the time Mojang kills off Java, mod developers will have backported the entirety of modern Minecraft to 1.7.10.
- bombcar 1y agoMinecraft itself is just a mod on 1.7.10, the One True Release.
- mcv 1y agoI have to ask: what's so special about 1.7.10?
- bombcar 1y agoIt is one of the versions that lots of mods were made for, and so some significant mod packs have stayed with it for decades. Part of it was the almost year between 1.7.x and 1.8, so some major mods like Thaumcraft never made the jump. Gregtech New Horizons (GTNH) has been back porting mods and features to 1.7.10 (like the ability to run on Java 20+) because that’s easier than porting the whole mod pack forward.
- fishgoesblub 1y agoPart of the reason was 1.8 Forge made it so most mods had to be re-written iirc. Also, Thaumcraft updated past 1.7 (Unfinished as Azanor left modding, but that's besides the point)
- squigz 1y agoNo they're not? Vanilla Java gets updates too, and even if they were, the modding scene is as vibrant as ever.
- dm319 1y agoI find bedrock has much better performance than java. It runs very nicely using the MCPE launcher on linux.
- lacksconfidence 1y agoThe performance is nice, but the advanced modding scene is non-existent. In java a mod author can do just about anything they can imagine and write code for. Somehow i doubt we will ever see dimensional doors as a bedrock mod.
- presbyterian 1y agoI have the opposite experience, unfortunately. It's not a perfect comparison, but my base M1 MacBook Pro (8GB RAM) gets consistently solid performance out of Java edition, but my M3 iPad Air (also 8GB RAM, but better chip) drops frames constantly in Bedrock.
- axus 1y agoThe impression I got was they actively promote Bedrock, but take the necessary steps to keep Java supported. They make more money from Bedrock, makes sense to budget there.
- somat 1y agoMinecraft is wierd because all that amazing modding that is done is in spite of mojang not because of them. I have not played minecraft in a few years but I think nothing has changed. Mojang, even pre microsoft, has never provided any sort of modding support. I grew up on quake where ID would give you the game code and tools necessary to make mods. Mojang gave nothing. modding on minecraft involved decompiling the bytecode, dealing with the terrible symbols the decompiler gave you then recompiling it back into a jar. It was ugly and unpleasant. later the bigger efforts produced some tooling and libraries to make this better, but mojang had no part in this. So minecraft is wierd, one of the most modded game in existence, yet the developers have provided no mod support.
- numberless 1y agoThey do provide deobfuscation maps these days at least
- herbst 1y agoThat's where I got my update anxiety from. Everything was broken after every update, but we loved the updates still. It wasn't easy and majong did not help back then.
- xboxnolifes 1y agoI don't know if it was done with modding in mind or not, but the transition to data packs was a non-trivial addition of mod support.
- immibis 1y agoAt the cost of inner-platform-effecting all the game code. Long-time software engineers know all about the inner platform effect - if not, see [1]. Instead of writing directly what you want, something like: new Block("mymod:mystone").setShape(Shapes.CUBE).setTexture("mymod:stone_texture").setStepSound(Sounds.STEP_ON_STONE)... you now have to do some of this inline (the part that can't be customized in data packs): new Block("mymod:mystone").setStepSound(Sounds.STEP_ON_STONE)... but the rest is looked up across 5 different cross-referenced JSON files full of magic values with no autocomplete or syntax highlighting. Start with an indirection layer in assets/mymod/blockstates/mystone.json: [2] {"variants": {"": {"model": "mystone"}}} then of course you have to actually specify how to display the block: [3] {"parent": "minecraft:block/cube_all", "textures": {"all": "fabric-docs-reference:block/steel_block"}} (you see that? there are inheritance and variables in Minecraft's ad-hoc JSON language) You need a second file to specify how to display the item when it's held in your hand. Usually it's similar boilerplate. But have a look at the abomination that is "item property overrides" [4] [5] as an example of inner-platforming. Instead of render(is_cast ? cast_model : uncast_model); there's this whole infrastructure of a registry of item property predicates written in Java which can then be referenced in JSON to select a different model file under specific conditions. [1] https://thedailywtf.com/articles/the_inner-platform_effect https://thedailywtf.com/articles/the_inner-platform_effect [2] https://docs.minecraftforge.net/en/1.12.x/models/blockstates/introduction/ https://docs.minecraftforge.net/en/1.12.x/models/blockstates... [3] https://docs.fabricmc.net/develop/data-generation/block-models https://docs.fabricmc.net/develop/data-generation/block-mode... [4] https://docs.minecraftforge.net/en/1.12.x/models/overrides/ https://docs.minecraftforge.net/en/1.12.x/models/overrides/ [5] https://minecraft.fandom.com/wiki/Tutorials/Models#Example:_Fishing_Rod https://minecraft.fandom.com/wiki/Tutorials/Models#Example:_...
- dusted 1y agoI played the original a lot, and lots of modding, but I prefer Luanti these days. There are lots of great games in it, and many of them are very much Minecraft, others explore entirely different approaches which can be very interesting as well. I'm spending some hours playing with my 5 year old too, and it's great.
- hnthrowaway1956 1y agono, they don't allow it, they maybe begrudgingly tolerate it. They have a history of false-copyright striking youtube videos, and they've recently started using AI (Tracer AI) to DMCA-spray claims, some of which are obviously nonsensical. Of course, they are fine with you making youtube videos about their game (itdraws people in) but try making a video about a bit darker topics related to the game and you can quickly find your video striked. I even found an instance of a project like this one (a unfinished open-source MC clone which is vaguely similar but original assets and code and everything) receiving an LLM-written copyright claim based on "it looks similar and that's protected by our IP"
- anthk 1y agoI'd recommend Minetest+some full game instead of a reimplementation from an older version. I know it's not the same; but some full games for Minetest are close enough and they will run on really old machines much faster than this reimplementation.
- lugu 1y agoMinetest (renamed luanti) is a fantastic platform to introduce concepts of programming to kids. We have been moding with my kids and had the best time using blender and doing some lua.
- minki_the_avali 1y agoMinetest is pretty awesome but it has some harsh limitations like a -32k -> 32k block world size limit in all directions as well as not being world file compatible (i know that experimental converters exist but half the blocks never load in and these are as old as 1.2.5 blocks so no chance it will even attempt to work with 1.12.2 maps) so for someone trying to get close to vanilla, I still think reimplementations are the way to go.
- astrobe_ 1y agoThe finite world is a problem in practice only for popular game servers. I think the base walking speed for characters is ~2m/s, so reaching the edge from origin would take at least 4 hours. Even free-falling from max altitude (10 m/s is the max speed IIRC) takes a while. Moreover, the "finitude" of the world can be mitigated by the fact that Luanti also offers 64 km total vertically out-of-the-box; various mods use this space to create the equivalent of "dimensions". In practice, without tools that allow to dig ridiculously fast, supposedly realistic mountains (what can be realistic in a game where you can carry with you several trees, casually jump 1 m anyway and barely get a scratch from a 15 m fall?), planes, dragons or whatnot, a "troposphere" of 1 km is plenty, and would allow 128 64x64 km "dimensions". That being said, and my own biases put aside, people outside of the Luanti core team are working on that [1] [1] https://forum.luanti.org/viewtopic.php?t=9183 https://forum.luanti.org/viewtopic.php?t=9183
- 1y ago
- globalhsbc 1y ago[dead]
- bcraven 1y agoI am always fascinated by articles that contain technical details like: "In order to run all of these, you will need a 64 bit computer (ideally little endian, on BE you will need to use a JIT like box64 which decreases performance) with 4 or more processor cores at over 900 MHz. A minimum of 4 GB of RAM is recommended, with some trickery like zram you might get away with less but it will cause slowdown. Ideally youd want an OpenGL capable graphics card too." Alongside text like: "Now, click on the right facing triangle (play button"
- galaxy_gas 1y agoits fitting given the Forum this Post is from its running on a camera via uart debug port
- justusthane 1y agoI think GP’s point was that it’s talking about LE vs BE while simultaneously explaining what a “play” button is. It reminds me of my “electronics” class back in school (2010): Day 1 was learning how to use a computer mouse. Day 2 was straight into how a CPU works on an electrical level. That’s awesome though, re: serving the site from a camera. Are there details on that somewhere? Edit: Nvm, found it here: https://lenowo.org/viewtopic.php?t=2 https://lenowo.org/viewtopic.php?t=2 Edit 2: I also like this thread, in which they are considering moving the site to a Galaxy S5, but decide not to after seeing that the site survives the HN hug: https://lenowo.org/viewtopic.php?t=28 https://lenowo.org/viewtopic.php?t=28
- galaxy_gas 1y agoThe second thread has other exciting options ! - samsung galaxy s5 - router - mips switch - disposable vape
- hamish-b 1y agoSite is currently down, wayback machine link: https://web.archive.org/web/20250919031347/https://lenowo.org/viewtopic.php?t=5 https://web.archive.org/web/20250919031347/https://lenowo.or...
- minki_the_avali 1y agoyeah, hackernews killed my poor ip camera again xD
- creshal 1y agoYou should get more cameras and run one of them as load balancer in front of the others!
- minki_the_avali 1y agoI actually wanna make a cluster at some point
- hamish-b 1y agoNice work, what you're up to is pretty impressive :^)
- bixilon 1y agoNo need to use via proxy at all. Minosoft supports 1.12.2 natively. You can just enforce that version (cuberite also supports 1.14, you can force that version too).
- minki_the_avali 1y agoThere is a need as multiple things were broken when I tried both of those methods, ViaProxy is technically not required but having it makes the two work together a lot more nicely. I'm not entirely sure what ViaProxy does differently here but it fixed both the getting stuck in doors issue as well as mobs not rendering
- bixilon 1y agoI always used Cuberite with enforced 1.14 as test server worked. But both your points are valid, doors are implemented like shit in < 1.13, but I added support https://gitlab.bixilon.de/bixilon/minosoft/-/commit/9afbe0dfb5d9e8bc2f56256f65f2cdf8e995c775 https://gitlab.bixilon.de/bixilon/minosoft/-/commit/9afbe0df... (Oct 14, 2023). I will test that...when I got time :) No clue about mobs, but textures were named differently back then. Could be.
- jasonlotito 1y agoVintage Story ruined Minecraft for me.
- epiccoleman 1y agowhoooa. that looks like ... Better Than Wolves 2. I'm going to have to give that a whirl.
- coolcoder613 1y agoSame here. It's just better in almost every way.
- accrual 1y ago> This whole adventure has one small problem: Minecraft changed how items and blocks are named between 1.12.2 and 1.13. In case anyone was wondering what this refers to, it is known as "The Flattening": https://minecraft.wiki/w/The_Flattening https://minecraft.wiki/w/The_Flattening
- mclau157 1y agoI think we could also reach a point where you could just re-implement a lot of it with ThreeJS
- candseven 1y ago[dead]
- mcv 1y agoWhy not use the popular spigot server? I use it myself, but I've got to admit I have no idea whether it's based on Mojang code or a reimplementation. Spigot supports the newest Minecraft editions, and requires a MS account, but I don't download it from Microsoft. So is it based on the original or is it a reimplementation? It's based on CraftBukkit about which their site says: > CraftBukkit is a modified version of the Vanilla Minecraft Server which allows it to run Bukkit plugins. The main goal of this project is to produce a server as close to Vanilla as possible, So it's based on the original code? But it's also said to be open source. I'm confused. Being able to play without a Microsoft account does appeal to me; the forced migration from Mojang accounts to Microsoft's shitty account system still leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Also, my son can't play with his friends because they all have Bedrock while we of course have Java.
- danhau 1y ago> So it's based on the original code? But it's also said to be open source. I'm confused. I don‘t know for sure, but the source code could be based on a decompilation of the official server classes. Apparently decomp projects are open-sourceable - see all the N64 projects that would otherwise have been shut down by Nintendo.
- LelouBil 1y agoYes and no. The code patches are open source, alongside some new classes (that are mainly interfaces, and the patches add the implementations basically, and also hooks into their event system) Spigot themselves don't provide a link to a built .jar, their provide a link to a java tool that - downloads the official Minecraft server - decompiles it into .java files - Applies the source code patches that are open source in spigot - Adds the spigot api files that are 100% open source - compiles all of this back to a .jar
- LelouBil 1y agoHave a look at this : https://geysermc.org/ https://geysermc.org/ I used it a couple of years ago and it worked fine. > So it's based on the original code? But it's also said to be open source. I'm confused. The contents of the open source repository are a set of patches to apply to the decompiled code, plus some fully new classes to add an event system, or interfaces (where patches hook into the event system and provide the implementations of the interfaces) Also most people use Paper (which is a Spigot fork that recently diverged and became a hard fork)