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I do wonder if early world explorers had been from the southern hemisphere and a tradition of "south up" was already established, if it would still look better

by mckeed 1y ago

I do wonder if early world explorers had been from the southern hemisphere and a tradition of "south up" was already established, if it would still look better to us to have more land on top.

bombcar 1y ago
I suppose we can ask Australians and the kiwis.
- cdjc 1y ago
  Kiwis are just happy New Zealand is on the map (https://www.reddit.com/r/MapsWithoutNZ/ https://www.reddit.com/r/MapsWithoutNZ/). Though it appears we don't have any cities.
detourdog 1y ago
I think the convention was born by magnetic north. I suppose it might also point to non magnetic south. Maybe a combination of the explorers and compass convention.
- IshKebab 1y ago
  How would magnetic north decide this? There's no asymmetry to magnetic north and south.
  - detourdog 1y ago
    I'm not 100% sure what you are asking. If the established convention is that a compass points north. Orienting a map to that convention makes sense to me. I thought I provided for the possibility that a compass also points south. The southern hemisphere historically navigated using wave patterns and stars with maps made of sticks and stones. So I expect they have different navigational conventions. I have heard of an southern hemisphere island that provided on their navigational orientation based on a mountain top. The pole star could also be part of this convention. The pole star appearing in a consistent point may also contribute to this standard.
thaumasiotes 1y ago
> I do wonder if early world explorers had been from the southern hemisphere and a tradition of "south up" was already established, if it would still look better to us to have more land on top. No, the preference is conventional. I should note, though, that Chinese maps were traditionally south-up. There's no reason to expect what hemisphere people are from to control that decision. (Not only did the Chinese come from the northern hemisphere - they had an official orthodoxy holding that the north of China, where they originated, was morally superior to the south! Nevertheless, they drew their maps with south at the top and referred to compasses as "south-pointing needles".)
- YurgenJurgensen 1y ago
  …except when they put East at the top. The compass points go 東南西北, after all.

by mckeed 1y ago

I do wonder if early world explorers had been from the southern hemisphere and a tradition of "south up" was already established, if it would still look better to us to have more land on top.

bombcar 1y ago

I suppose we can ask Australians and the kiwis.

cdjc 1y ago
Kiwis are just happy New Zealand is on the map (https://www.reddit.com/r/MapsWithoutNZ/ https://www.reddit.com/r/MapsWithoutNZ/). Though it appears we don't have any cities.

detourdog 1y ago

I think the convention was born by magnetic north. I suppose it might also point to non magnetic south. Maybe a combination of the explorers and compass convention.

IshKebab 1y ago
How would magnetic north decide this? There's no asymmetry to magnetic north and south.
- detourdog 1y ago
  I'm not 100% sure what you are asking. If the established convention is that a compass points north. Orienting a map to that convention makes sense to me. I thought I provided for the possibility that a compass also points south. The southern hemisphere historically navigated using wave patterns and stars with maps made of sticks and stones. So I expect they have different navigational conventions. I have heard of an southern hemisphere island that provided on their navigational orientation based on a mountain top. The pole star could also be part of this convention. The pole star appearing in a consistent point may also contribute to this standard.

thaumasiotes 1y ago

> I do wonder if early world explorers had been from the southern hemisphere and a tradition of "south up" was already established, if it would still look better to us to have more land on top. No, the preference is conventional. I should note, though, that Chinese maps were traditionally south-up. There's no reason to expect what hemisphere people are from to control that decision. (Not only did the Chinese come from the northern hemisphere - they had an official orthodoxy holding that the north of China, where they originated, was morally superior to the south! Nevertheless, they drew their maps with south at the top and referred to compasses as "south-pointing needles".)

YurgenJurgensen 1y ago
…except when they put East at the top. The compass points go 東南西北, after all.