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> point fingers at YouTube for something they weren’t involved in YouTube monetizes based on view count. They also send the data to the client. That client dat

> point fingers at YouTube for something they weren’t involved in YouTube monetizes based on view count. They also send the data to the client. That client data is in anyway involved, and could be blocked, is YouTube’s design problem.

Konnstann 1y ago
A number of YouTubers have made the claim that their views were affected but not revenue, so it seems like the monetization is based on ad-watching views at least.
- hypeatei 1y ago
  Couldn't that affect third party sponsorships, though? Both getting them and reporting numbers to existing ones?
  - Intralexical 1y ago
    Presumably, it would affect that, and also long-term channel growth. Which would be dastardly if it were intentional, because it would basically cull the platform of channels who voice support for ad blocking. I wonder if CTR was affected. Could one of the affected channels could have detected that not adding up? I guess it was probably already blocked for privacy. Maybe I shouldn't be giving them ideas. Interestingly, anybody can now measure what percentage of any channel's viewers run ad blockers, by using publicly available data on how much their views dropped during this period.
- Intralexical 1y ago
  The entire way this issue was figured out was because it only affected desktop views that weren't monetized to begin with, which the guy in the linked video guessed meant adblockers. If the monetization weren't limited to ad-watching views, we'd probably still be trying to figure out what happened.
- taurath 1y ago
  Well at least people's primary source of income isn't hidden behind a black box by corporate overlords or anything
  - Wurdan 1y ago
    For better or worse a gigantic portion of people who make their livelihoods on the internet are fully dependent on closed source platforms. Do you think people who sell things on Shopify or Etsy are any more able to scrutinize the systems they depend on to make a living?
    - danielheath 1y ago
      You can sell on Shopify _and_ Etsy and make money on both (as long as you don’t cross Mastercard/Visa). Turning a profit on video outside YouTube is a far more difficult undertaking. My point: This problem is far worse when a monopoly is involved.
      - Wurdan 1y ago
        So what's your suggestion for how YouTube could be doing better here? Especially in the scenario that (as the top level comment in this thread suggests) YouTube didn't actually make any changes and the reason the views dropped is because EasyList added an entry to their privacy filter. Should YouTube have recognized that they're in a quasi-monopoly position as you suggest, done the research to identify EasyList as the culprit behind the view metric drop, and then released a change to their client to add a new endpoint which isn't blocked by EasyList? We don't know that the EasyList theory is what's really going on here, but if you're going to tar YouTube/Google over this ordeal, then I think you have some responsibility for suggesting how they could have done better.
        danielheath 1y ago
        YouTube can’t “do better”; the problem is the monopoly (their moat is too damn wide).
  - 1y ago
- xinayder 1y ago
  They also recently introduced age estimation in the US, which a lot of channels reported as the culprit for reduced view number in their videos. In short, age estimation will restrict videos from viewers, and a creator has almost no way of knowing if a video was age-restricted or not. Bellular has a video about the situation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSYLe6Yq4R4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSYLe6Yq4R4
Scaevolus 1y ago
Should a video watched with ads blocked earn money?
- taurath 1y ago
  Thats the whole damn point of youtube premium
  - randomNumber7 1y ago
    It was funny how my former boss (also a software engineer) looked when I showed him that you get the same thing by installing an ad blocker ^^
    - naikrovek 1y ago
      it's not the same thing. it looks the same to you, because you don't give a shit, but it's not the same. I want ad-free viewing on any youtube client in my house, and I do not want to maintain infrastructure to allow that. The terms of the service indicate that I should pay if I want an ad-free experience, so that's what I do. Some unknown portion of my subscription fee goes towards the monetization of videos that I watch, which I definitely want to happen. Ad blockers don't pay people in lieu of ads, and youtube premium does.
      - iamacyborg 1y ago
        > it's not the same thing. it looks the same to you, because you don't give a shit, but it's not the same I give a shit, I just give more of a shit about my personal privacy and my data not being shared with hundreds of anonymous third parties through the advertising auction mechanism than I do about a creator being paid. Give me ads without RTB and I’ll very seriously reconsider my adblock usage.
        mastercheif 1y ago
        You can use Premium with an ad blocker
Intralexical 1y ago
Worse than that, YouTube relies on client data for view counting while also actively creating an incentive for ad blockers to disrupt client data because of their anti-ad blocker measures. This reminds me that I think it was the Invidious project that had a disclaimer saying they could not prevent YouTube from counting your view. Well, I guess they probably could after all, and probably did, depending on which method was used to fetch the video.
safety1st 1y ago
The ability to block any network request I want is an essential feature of the general computer and I will promptly abandon any service which tries to impinge upon my security as well as my freedom to use what I own in the way I wish, to obstruct that. Now sure, they could perform some kind of tracking that doesn't generate additional network requests. But they know how the open Web works and the tradeoffs even if they may not like it, so I would guess their architecture is deliberate.
- Gabrys1 1y ago
  They could just embed tracking code to the streaming service? As in: count how many times the chunk of video was sent to the clients, rather than relying on the clients to work as THEY intended... Client-side analytics must end
  - cm2187 1y ago
    Plus that would make cheating on traffic really bandwidth expensive
    - brookst 1y ago
      Not for the cheater. You’d still buy 1m views on some shady site, armies of bots on hacked devices/routers would still pull down the steams at no cost to the bad guys.
  - danhau 1y ago
    This would make replays or scrubbing count as additional views. To fix that, they would need some kind of set to uniquely store all clients, and that‘s questionable from a security and moral point of view, even for YouTube.
    - thaumasiotes 1y ago
      What? Replays already do count as additional views. Load a video one day, then load it again the next day. That's two views. There isn't a way to avoid this non-problem. I'm not sure what you mean by "scrubbing".
wodenokoto 1y ago
I don't understand what point you are trying to make, but I am honestly surprised if they monetize based on view count and not based on advertisement view and click counts.
- tantalor 1y ago
  > Revenue from YouTube Premium membership fees is distributed to video creators based on how much members watch your content. As with our advertising business, the majority of the revenue will go to our partners. https://support.google.com/youtube/answer/6306276 https://support.google.com/youtube/answer/6306276

Konnstann 1y ago

A number of YouTubers have made the claim that their views were affected but not revenue, so it seems like the monetization is based on ad-watching views at least.

hypeatei 1y ago
Couldn't that affect third party sponsorships, though? Both getting them and reporting numbers to existing ones?
- Intralexical 1y ago
  Presumably, it would affect that, and also long-term channel growth. Which would be dastardly if it were intentional, because it would basically cull the platform of channels who voice support for ad blocking. I wonder if CTR was affected. Could one of the affected channels could have detected that not adding up? I guess it was probably already blocked for privacy. Maybe I shouldn't be giving them ideas. Interestingly, anybody can now measure what percentage of any channel's viewers run ad blockers, by using publicly available data on how much their views dropped during this period.
Intralexical 1y ago
The entire way this issue was figured out was because it only affected desktop views that weren't monetized to begin with, which the guy in the linked video guessed meant adblockers. If the monetization weren't limited to ad-watching views, we'd probably still be trying to figure out what happened.
taurath 1y ago
Well at least people's primary source of income isn't hidden behind a black box by corporate overlords or anything
- Wurdan 1y ago
  For better or worse a gigantic portion of people who make their livelihoods on the internet are fully dependent on closed source platforms. Do you think people who sell things on Shopify or Etsy are any more able to scrutinize the systems they depend on to make a living?
  - danielheath 1y ago
    You can sell on Shopify _and_ Etsy and make money on both (as long as you don’t cross Mastercard/Visa). Turning a profit on video outside YouTube is a far more difficult undertaking. My point: This problem is far worse when a monopoly is involved.
    - Wurdan 1y ago
      So what's your suggestion for how YouTube could be doing better here? Especially in the scenario that (as the top level comment in this thread suggests) YouTube didn't actually make any changes and the reason the views dropped is because EasyList added an entry to their privacy filter. Should YouTube have recognized that they're in a quasi-monopoly position as you suggest, done the research to identify EasyList as the culprit behind the view metric drop, and then released a change to their client to add a new endpoint which isn't blocked by EasyList? We don't know that the EasyList theory is what's really going on here, but if you're going to tar YouTube/Google over this ordeal, then I think you have some responsibility for suggesting how they could have done better.
      - danielheath 1y ago
        YouTube can’t “do better”; the problem is the monopoly (their moat is too damn wide).
- 1y ago
xinayder 1y ago
They also recently introduced age estimation in the US, which a lot of channels reported as the culprit for reduced view number in their videos. In short, age estimation will restrict videos from viewers, and a creator has almost no way of knowing if a video was age-restricted or not. Bellular has a video about the situation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSYLe6Yq4R4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSYLe6Yq4R4

Scaevolus 1y ago

Should a video watched with ads blocked earn money?

taurath 1y ago
Thats the whole damn point of youtube premium
- randomNumber7 1y ago
  It was funny how my former boss (also a software engineer) looked when I showed him that you get the same thing by installing an ad blocker ^^
  - naikrovek 1y ago
    it's not the same thing. it looks the same to you, because you don't give a shit, but it's not the same. I want ad-free viewing on any youtube client in my house, and I do not want to maintain infrastructure to allow that. The terms of the service indicate that I should pay if I want an ad-free experience, so that's what I do. Some unknown portion of my subscription fee goes towards the monetization of videos that I watch, which I definitely want to happen. Ad blockers don't pay people in lieu of ads, and youtube premium does.
    - iamacyborg 1y ago
      > it's not the same thing. it looks the same to you, because you don't give a shit, but it's not the same I give a shit, I just give more of a shit about my personal privacy and my data not being shared with hundreds of anonymous third parties through the advertising auction mechanism than I do about a creator being paid. Give me ads without RTB and I’ll very seriously reconsider my adblock usage.
      - mastercheif 1y ago
        You can use Premium with an ad blocker

Intralexical 1y ago

Worse than that, YouTube relies on client data for view counting while also actively creating an incentive for ad blockers to disrupt client data because of their anti-ad blocker measures. This reminds me that I think it was the Invidious project that had a disclaimer saying they could not prevent YouTube from counting your view. Well, I guess they probably could after all, and probably did, depending on which method was used to fetch the video.

safety1st 1y ago

The ability to block any network request I want is an essential feature of the general computer and I will promptly abandon any service which tries to impinge upon my security as well as my freedom to use what I own in the way I wish, to obstruct that. Now sure, they could perform some kind of tracking that doesn't generate additional network requests. But they know how the open Web works and the tradeoffs even if they may not like it, so I would guess their architecture is deliberate.

Gabrys1 1y ago
They could just embed tracking code to the streaming service? As in: count how many times the chunk of video was sent to the clients, rather than relying on the clients to work as THEY intended... Client-side analytics must end
- cm2187 1y ago
  Plus that would make cheating on traffic really bandwidth expensive
  - brookst 1y ago
    Not for the cheater. You’d still buy 1m views on some shady site, armies of bots on hacked devices/routers would still pull down the steams at no cost to the bad guys.
- danhau 1y ago
  This would make replays or scrubbing count as additional views. To fix that, they would need some kind of set to uniquely store all clients, and that‘s questionable from a security and moral point of view, even for YouTube.
  - thaumasiotes 1y ago
    What? Replays already do count as additional views. Load a video one day, then load it again the next day. That's two views. There isn't a way to avoid this non-problem. I'm not sure what you mean by "scrubbing".

wodenokoto 1y ago

I don't understand what point you are trying to make, but I am honestly surprised if they monetize based on view count and not based on advertisement view and click counts.

tantalor 1y ago
> Revenue from YouTube Premium membership fees is distributed to video creators based on how much members watch your content. As with our advertising business, the majority of the revenue will go to our partners. https://support.google.com/youtube/answer/6306276 https://support.google.com/youtube/answer/6306276