4 ms·

At least in Russia, "orthodox" has an extra connotation that's not strictly coupled to church, akin more to "one true way", as in "orthodox way to learn a tech

At least in Russia, "orthodox" has an extra connotation that's not strictly coupled to church, akin more to "one true way", as in "orthodox way to learn a tech stack". With a negation, it becomes something like "wrong" or even "heretical", as in "pizza with pineapple".

andrewshadura 1y ago
What you're describing is the meaning of the word in English. I suspect using the word православный with this meaning started as a joke transplanting the English meaning of the word onto the corresponding Russian word.
- kgeist 1y ago
  "Orthodox" in Russian is "pravoslavny", literally "right faith" (pravyj = right, correct). I think it also contributes to the meaning. "The right way".
  - rusk 1y ago
    Means the same thing in Ireland too! My understanding is it derives from greek for “ordinary teaching” we also use the term heterodox for a cultural setting that encourages different types of thought. The term Paradox is a challenging or somewhat contradictory idea. We also use the term orthodox for a right handed boxer. “Southpaw” is non-orthodox left handed.
    - gschizas 1y ago
      Greek here: Orthodox = orthos + doxasia Orthos = straight/correct Doxasia = belief orthodoxos = correct belief
  - blks 1y ago
    Yes and no. Orthodox church is called “православная церковь”, yes, but the word “ортодоксальный” still exists to describe e.g. orthodox jews. The word “православный” in a meaning of some object/technology/way being good and true only started being used in Internet culture during 00s, and it still used, but as a slang/joke.
- rob74 1y ago
  Actually, it's the meaning of the word in Greek: > "what is regarded as true or correct," from Late Latin orthodoxus, from Greek orthodoxos "having the right opinion," from orthos "right, true, straight" + doxa "opinion, praise". (https://www.etymonline.com/word/orthodox https://www.etymonline.com/word/orthodox) But, when referring to dual-pane file managers, it's probably a mix of both meanings ("one true way" and "old-fashioned").
rswail 1y ago
The English word for that is "canonical".
- tremon 1y ago
  To me, "canonical" feels more descriptive whereas "orthodox" has a prescriptive connotation. But I'm also ESL, so not sure if that's just me or common in any/all English-speaking countries.
  - schoen 1y ago
    They're both derived from religious terms or religious metaphors. For me (native U.S. English speaker) the religious reference in "orthodox" is more transparent and that in "canonical" is more obscure, so "canonical" sounds more technical or more neutral somehow.
    - rswail 1y ago
      Agreed, but "canon law" has always meant church law. Canonical is derived from that, and it's got similar connotations of "reference design" as the use of "orthodox" here.
  - drnick1 1y ago
    "Canonical" is used all the time in math to mean, roughly speaking, a "standard" or "preferred" way of doing things.
- rurban 1y ago
  But the canonical two-pane file manager is Total Commander, not this TUI Linux clone.
abcd_f 1y ago
This is incorrect. Ортодоксальный doesn't carry these connotations at all. If anything, it describes something that is stuck in old ways and/or pointlessly rigid.
- bee_rider 1y ago
  I find this whole thread a bit confusing—the comment two up describes “orthodox” meaning one-true-way as a Russian thing, but this is also part of the connotation in English. You describe it as not having this “one true way” connotation, but as having this pointlessly rigid connotation. In English, I think it has both connotations. Although, almost any phrase which has an implication of “one true way” can end up with a double meaning of “pointlessly rigid,” right? (It is context dependent, of course).
- iamnotagenius 1y ago
  православный is used in jargon for exactly that meaning. source: 45 years of native Russian speaking.
  - abcd_f 1y ago
    Must be something recent then. From an Internet meme or something like креведко?
bee_rider 1y ago
I think this is also the connotation in English. We got it from Greek mostly, correct? I thought it meant something like “right-belief.” It can be contrasted against orthopraxy, right-practice, where the actions are more important than the belief or intent. Based on the other comments here, these orthodox file browsers are based on a sort of underlying language, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45271878 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45271878 > The "orthodox" comes from a specific type of GUI, namely one that is driven by commands under the hood. UI elements are merely used to trigger commands that have the actual effect, and these commands could just as well be executed by hand, or automated into more complex commands. It… kind of makes sense actually, if we stretch the definitions a bit, haha. The orthodox UI has some button, which is translated into a sequence of commands that represent the actual user intent. The alternative is just to have the button do the thing directly, there’s no description of the user intent other than what the button does. It is quite a stretch but maybe we could call that the an Orthoprax UI.

andrewshadura 1y ago

What you're describing is the meaning of the word in English. I suspect using the word православный with this meaning started as a joke transplanting the English meaning of the word onto the corresponding Russian word.

kgeist 1y ago
"Orthodox" in Russian is "pravoslavny", literally "right faith" (pravyj = right, correct). I think it also contributes to the meaning. "The right way".
- rusk 1y ago
  Means the same thing in Ireland too! My understanding is it derives from greek for “ordinary teaching” we also use the term heterodox for a cultural setting that encourages different types of thought. The term Paradox is a challenging or somewhat contradictory idea. We also use the term orthodox for a right handed boxer. “Southpaw” is non-orthodox left handed.
  - gschizas 1y ago
    Greek here: Orthodox = orthos + doxasia Orthos = straight/correct Doxasia = belief orthodoxos = correct belief
- blks 1y ago
  Yes and no. Orthodox church is called “православная церковь”, yes, but the word “ортодоксальный” still exists to describe e.g. orthodox jews. The word “православный” in a meaning of some object/technology/way being good and true only started being used in Internet culture during 00s, and it still used, but as a slang/joke.
rob74 1y ago
Actually, it's the meaning of the word in Greek: > "what is regarded as true or correct," from Late Latin orthodoxus, from Greek orthodoxos "having the right opinion," from orthos "right, true, straight" + doxa "opinion, praise". (https://www.etymonline.com/word/orthodox https://www.etymonline.com/word/orthodox) But, when referring to dual-pane file managers, it's probably a mix of both meanings ("one true way" and "old-fashioned").

rswail 1y ago

The English word for that is "canonical".

tremon 1y ago
To me, "canonical" feels more descriptive whereas "orthodox" has a prescriptive connotation. But I'm also ESL, so not sure if that's just me or common in any/all English-speaking countries.
- schoen 1y ago
  They're both derived from religious terms or religious metaphors. For me (native U.S. English speaker) the religious reference in "orthodox" is more transparent and that in "canonical" is more obscure, so "canonical" sounds more technical or more neutral somehow.
  - rswail 1y ago
    Agreed, but "canon law" has always meant church law. Canonical is derived from that, and it's got similar connotations of "reference design" as the use of "orthodox" here.
- drnick1 1y ago
  "Canonical" is used all the time in math to mean, roughly speaking, a "standard" or "preferred" way of doing things.
rurban 1y ago
But the canonical two-pane file manager is Total Commander, not this TUI Linux clone.

abcd_f 1y ago

This is incorrect. Ортодоксальный doesn't carry these connotations at all. If anything, it describes something that is stuck in old ways and/or pointlessly rigid.

bee_rider 1y ago
I find this whole thread a bit confusing—the comment two up describes “orthodox” meaning one-true-way as a Russian thing, but this is also part of the connotation in English. You describe it as not having this “one true way” connotation, but as having this pointlessly rigid connotation. In English, I think it has both connotations. Although, almost any phrase which has an implication of “one true way” can end up with a double meaning of “pointlessly rigid,” right? (It is context dependent, of course).
iamnotagenius 1y ago
православный is used in jargon for exactly that meaning. source: 45 years of native Russian speaking.
- abcd_f 1y ago
  Must be something recent then. From an Internet meme or something like креведко?

bee_rider 1y ago

I think this is also the connotation in English. We got it from Greek mostly, correct? I thought it meant something like “right-belief.” It can be contrasted against orthopraxy, right-practice, where the actions are more important than the belief or intent. Based on the other comments here, these orthodox file browsers are based on a sort of underlying language, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45271878 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45271878 > The "orthodox" comes from a specific type of GUI, namely one that is driven by commands under the hood. UI elements are merely used to trigger commands that have the actual effect, and these commands could just as well be executed by hand, or automated into more complex commands. It… kind of makes sense actually, if we stretch the definitions a bit, haha. The orthodox UI has some button, which is translated into a sequence of commands that represent the actual user intent. The alternative is just to have the button do the thing directly, there’s no description of the user intent other than what the button does. It is quite a stretch but maybe we could call that the an Orthoprax UI.