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Linux phones are useless for common people until they can run government and bank apps.
by akagusu 1y ago
Linux phones are useless for common people until they can run government and bank apps.
- dmbche 1y agoWhat's an example of a government app
- randunel 1y agoROeID app, which is required by almost all RO government websites to log in.
- abhinavk 1y agoIdentity apps as well as apps to access government and social programs.
- jeffparsons 1y agoIn Australia: Centrelink, Service Victoria, Medicare, myID (formerly MyGovID), ATO (tax) — for a start. There's no great reason for these to be Android/Apple specific. I'm just offering examples as requested.
- dmbche 1y agoAnd much appreciated - was not aware of these (other than covid vaccine apps really not seen them so far). Have a good day
- JoaoCostaIFG 1y agoPortuguese government app: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=id.gov.pt https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=id.gov.pt Allows you to have a digital copy of your ID and sign in to government sites/services (there are alternative methods).
- mitthrowaway2 1y agoThe BC Service Card app
- hopelite 1y agoNot to mention why specifically government apps? Would those not be covered by general compatibility with web standards? Wouldn’t well designed mobile web-apps suffice for that use case? I have several web-app site shortcuts linked on my Home Screen which behave just like the native apps. In most cases I don’t see why that would not be sufficient, including most “government apps” use cases
- CuriouslyC 1y agoLinux can emulate android. Most banks have websites, and the only real blocker for banking apps I've seen is the photo verification due to hardware issues connecting to the emulated android system.
- em-bee 1y agothe app for one of my banks which i need for 2FA won't run on my /e/OS phone.
- bakugo 1y ago> Linux can emulate android. It can't emulate hardware attestation though, which most bank apps now require, so good luck with that.
- CuriouslyC 1y agoYou can do pass through attestation with access to kernelspace. There are a few things that don't pass (play protect/wildvine, but that's by design, not a limitation of linux)
- IlikeKitties 1y agoAnd do you think that will matter in the near future? Because every app developer will just set their apps to use the highest attestation requirement by default and every normal android phone will pass that test. The few percent of people that use something else can just fuck off.
- christophilus 1y agoI don't agree. They're useless until they can call, text, and do video / camera reliably. With enough adoption, the rest will come, but they won't ever get adoption without nailing those basics.
- akagusu 1y agoAdoption will come only and only with essential apps people use every day.
- takluyver 1y agoAnd those apps get developed only if there are enough users. Catch 22. Microsoft didn't manage to make Windows Phone a viable competitor against Android & iOS, and they're about an order of magnitude bigger than any Linux-focused company. I hope the conditions shift and an open phone OS can take off, but I don't know what would enable it.
- fsflover 1y agoLibrem 5 can do all those things fine. Video is somewhat less reliable, but it works.
- hecanjog 1y agoI've had the same (US) bank for 20 years, it's a small one, they have a nice web interface (and I can deposit checks through it on my laptop) but I've never run into a situation where I needed to have some smartphone app to do my banking. (I also don't have a smartphone.) Is this common with major banks? Do they not have web interfaces anymore?
- akagusu 1y agoOutside US lots of banks use apps to generate a token and authenticate website transactions.
- em-bee 1y agocustom apps, that allow no alternative.
- Nursie 1y agoA lot of major banks worldwide have apps, and they usually require un-rooted phones. People here seem to think this is some sort of Orwellian attempt to control them, but the reasons are more mundane and technical - many of them (mine included, from two countries) use security facilities on the phone to secure your accounts. For example, my HSBC UK app has replaced the little calculator thing they used to ship, and uses iOS face recognition to secure the generation of log-on codes which you need in order to use the web interface, as well as for secure access to the banking app directly. With a rooted phone they don't have the guarantees that these aren't being exfiltrated, or the app being subverted in novel ways, so they don't want to support it. You may not consider this a good enough reason, and I have heard it said on HN that 'the banks shouldn't get to control what I do on my computing device!', and that attitude is absolutely fine, but then you'll most likely end up with either less secure banking (meaning more fraud, higher fees etc) or going back to having to have a dedicated security device. > I can deposit checks through it on my laptop American-like banking detected... who uses checks in 2025?! :)
- hecanjog 1y ago> American-like banking detected... who uses checks in 2025?! :) Yeah, fair. :-) I live in a small town, the only check I write is my rent check, which I literally walk across the street to deposit. But I still on rare occasions receive checks as well.
- kortilla 1y agoThankfully neither of those are required in the US.
- anonzzzies 1y agoNot yet.
- Syntonicles 1y agoMy bank's mobile app no longer supports my 2017 Android phone. I thought it would be a big deal but honestly I forgot about it until you mentioned this, it's been 6-12 months.
- debo_ 1y agoIn giant font at the top of the linked post: > apparently it needs to be said that I am not suggesting you switch to Linux on your phone today; just that development needs to accelerate. Please don’t be one of the 34 people that replied to tell me Linux is not ready.
- akagusu 1y agoLinux is ready, what is not ready is the ecosystem.
- olivia-banks 1y agoExactly. The kernel more or less doesn't matter, it's "the stuff on top."
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- akagusu 1y agoUnfortunately tech people don't understand this. Common people don't care about the OS, they care about apps.
- jay_kyburz 1y agoSome tech people don't care what common people want, they just want a cool phone for themselves.
- shaky-carrousel 1y agoI smell a "no true Scottman" here. Because people always say "common people do what I say" and when someone says "hey, I am common people and I disagree", the same people usually answer "well, then you're not common _enough_". Which is a huge fallacy.
- akagusu 1y ago
- defrost 1y agoCuriously the linked discussion begins: apparently it needs to be said that I am not suggesting you switch to Linux on your phone today; just that development needs to accelerate. Please don’t be one of the 34 people that replied to tell me Linux is not ready.
- zaik 1y agoI absolutely hate that government and bank apps are only available on the Play Store. You are legally required to have a Google account and accept their ToS to use them. I am aware of Aurora, but some banking apps check their origin and refuse to run if not downloaded from the Play Store.
- _heimdall 1y agoI had to deal with this for government apps specifically related to immigration. I don't mind banks requiring it, I don't have to use that bank. I do mind governments requiring it if my only recourse is having to leave the country entirely.
- bakugo 1y ago> I don't mind banks requiring it, I don't have to use that bank. What if all banks require it?
- _heimdall 1y agoBanks aren't required. Its ridiculously inconvenient today to not have a bank account, but you aren't required to have one.
- Dylan16807 1y agoYou should still be upset about it.
- _heimdall 1y agoWhat does being upset about it solve? Companies can choose what product to offer and what customers to serve. I can choose what products I'm willing to spend my money and time on. My problem is when I am compelled to use something despite my opposition to it, such as the immigration app I mentioned being force to use under threat of being kicked out of the country.
- 1y ago
- anticorporate 1y agoI've heard this argument before and yet I've never understood it. What government apps do people run? Why do you need to access your bank account on your phone? Is this some payments model that's just not common in my country where we still use physical credit cards for everything?
- ronsor 1y agoPeople in non-US countries apparently have a litany of government and banking apps which are mandatory at all times.
- Telaneo 1y agoThey're rarely completely mandatory (Grandma still needs to be able to access her bank too), but the alternative is usually a whole lot more inconvenient (sometimes for bad reasons, sometimes just because that's how life is).
- type0 1y ago> (Grandma still needs to be able to access her bank too) In some countries they are mandated if not by law then by implementation, a relative or a social worker is tasked to get grandma equipped with a "smart device". She can even borrow it for a few months from municipality services until she can afford to buy it
- spot5010 1y agoI do most of my banking and investments on my phone. I don’t think I’m in the minority here.
- bakugo 1y ago> Why do you need to access your bank account on your phone? My bank requires me to authenticate all online transactions via the phone app. Without it, it's not possible to make online payments.
- MostlyStable 1y ago
- j-bos 1y agoWhy not just use the browser?
- weikju 1y agoIn the case of my bank: I had to enable secure auth to access some features. This works only with the mobile app, even when logging on the web I need the mobile app. Some functions are available only in the app as well. Now I’m stuck with the app because I need those and needed secure auth to access those functions. It’s evil but I has no choice (no choice of other banks either for reasons I won’t go into here, just accept it and don’t tell me to change banks. Other banks are no better anyway. )
- izacus 1y agoI need my banking app for 2FA to login with the browser. No, they don't use or allow TOTP.
- yosito 1y ago> until they can run government and bank apps That will never happen. Governments are invested in people depending on surveillance technology. Black mirrors are a tool for controlling the masses.
- rjdj377dhabsn 1y agoI think the only viable solution is going to be to have 2 devices: one for government and financial services and one for everything else, where you still have some hope of privacy.
- globular-toast 1y agoThis is what I'm thinking. Android supports multi-user, right? So a cheap Android POS shared with the family that gets left at home most of the time. I also think just not using a phone as much is a viable solution. People are addicted to their phones so it would feel like intercision at first. But freedom is worth it. Never sacrifice freedom for convenience. You actually don't need to look up stuff on Wikipedia at any time while you're outside. Just be outside. Be offline. It's fine. It's better even. I'd be happy just going back to a dumbphone for the phone bit and having a portable GNU/Linux device for travelling. I still have a 15 year old Dell netbook but sadly the battery is shot and it's no good for the wonderful "modern" web. But something like that would be fine.
- Hackbraten 1y ago> I also think just not using a phone as much is a viable solution. Most European banks force you to use your phone for 2FA if you want to pay your bills, no matter if you're sending the transaction from your computer or your phone.
- globular-toast 1y agoYeah the point of this subthread is having a shitty device just for that crap. I don't need to pay my bills at a moment's notice from anywhere in the world. In fact, I refuse to.
- Hackbraten 1y agoThis is not about being able to pay your bills at a moment's notice from anywhere in the world. This is about being able to pay your bills at all.
- pabs3 1y agoThose apps usually require Google's version of Android (or Apple iOS), and block alternative Android builds using attestation: https://grapheneos.org/articles/attestation-compatibility-guide#apps-banning-grapheneos https://grapheneos.org/articles/attestation-compatibility-gu...
- agnishom 1y agoyes, we know. Why do you feel the need to highlight the most negative aspect of the adoption?