5 ms·

>All that hardware must surely be worth more than half the value of the actual product! I'm constantly struck at how bread (a pastry, say) in a plastic tray, w

>All that hardware must surely be worth more than half the value of the actual product! I'm constantly struck at how bread (a pastry, say) in a plastic tray, wrapped in plastic, is so crazy to me. The effort and technology that went, and goes, into oil extraction and such - only to throw the packaging away immediately that I get home ... it's just so unsustainable. I wonder when in the West we'll start mining rubbish dumps ('refuse sites' where household waste is buried)? Maybe we already have? I know in developing countries people spend their days manually picking over such places.

jazzyjackson 1y ago
The cheapness of plastic just to speaks to the enormous demand for all the other oil products sold, it's practically a byproduct.
- carelyair 1y ago
  What will happen to the price of plastic when demand for oil starts reducing for mobility and heating with the move to electricity energy?
  - Dilettante_ 1y ago
    Flying pigs will deliver our food directly from the production point, no more need for packaging.
  - toss1 1y ago
    Not much; I used to think the same thing. But there are many ways to make the same chemicals from bio sources, either directly grown (corn or soy as feedstocks) or more processed, or bioengineered so bacteria convert some bio input to the desired chemicals
- thescriptkiddie 1y ago
  somebody once said oil is too valuable to burn for fuel. the important part are the petrochemicals, but the demand for fuel is so high that's where the money is
parliament32 1y ago
> I wonder when in the West we'll start mining rubbish dumps Never, because we have virtually unlimited space for landfills, and landfill tech has quietly been improving over the last few centuries, to the point that landfills are cheap, non-polluting, and entirely carbon neutral. Countries with less land mass (Europe et al) prefer incineration (mainly to save space, despite it being significantly worse for the environment and much more expensive (although with the newer energy reclamation efforts this is getting better)). IMO it's not worth worrying about landfills too much. Household waste makes up about 3% of total landfill waste (when you add commercial/industrial/agricultural) in North America. You and your bun wrapper are truly irrelevant in the grand scheme of things.
- alanbernstein 1y ago
  This is backwards, it's not about eliminating the landfill, it's about recovering the materials which were previously not scarce but now are or will be soon.
  - dannyw 1y ago
    Oil-plastics will increase in cost as it becomes more scarce. Bioplastics are increasingly popular, research is making it better and easier to produce, etc. I don’t fret over a plastic wrap. For one, if it’s bread in a supermarket, I want it wrapped, I don’t want someone’s sneeze on it. Plastic for fruits and veggies that you rinse, that’s absurd.
- BizarroLand 1y ago
  Landfills are likely chock full of Aluminum, Nickel-Cadmium, Lithium, copper, brass, and all sorts of useful metals and chemicals. Sure, the grand majority is going to be food waste, but if you threw it all into an incinerator and melted down the ashes there is probably a decent blend of valuable material mixed in with the waste.
  - distances 1y ago
    You don't have separate collection for food (bio) waste?
numpad0 1y ago
Not sure how those are related. We only eat food coming in packaging comparable to transplanted organ because companies can't afford poisoning lawsuits because humans are so expensive. Lots of people especially those generally "up north" undermine risks and therefore costs of food poisoning, but it's real. Haven't those people seen things growing molds?
- forty 1y ago
  How is plastic on bread related with food poisoning? Here in France baguettes are wrapped in paper and are eaten within a day or two of being made (or else they get dry). if you keep them for long enough, molds will grow on it, then you see them and don't eat that old bread (even though it's unlikely to be too bad for most people, the taste is certainly not great). I'd be surprised if anyone ever got food poisoned with bread.
  - jaggederest 1y ago
    > I'd be surprised if anyone ever got food poisoned with bread. I'm about to blow your mind. It was and is one of the most common food poisoning types, especially B. Cereus and everyone's favorite religion-creator, C. purpurea / ergot. Gross image warning (not sure why it's the first thing on the page but...) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ergotism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ergotism
    - iberator 1y ago
      >Changes in agricultural practices and the introduction of disease-resistant crop varieties have largely eliminated ergotism in modern times
      - jaggederest 1y ago
        Correct, but B. Cereus is essentially the most common food poisoning bacteria, depending on what sources you look at.
    - forty 1y ago
userbinator 1y ago
As soon as there is demand, I'm sure they'll start mining. Provided it doesn't leave the planet, everything is recycled on a long enough timescale.

jazzyjackson 1y ago

The cheapness of plastic just to speaks to the enormous demand for all the other oil products sold, it's practically a byproduct.

carelyair 1y ago
What will happen to the price of plastic when demand for oil starts reducing for mobility and heating with the move to electricity energy?
- Dilettante_ 1y ago
  Flying pigs will deliver our food directly from the production point, no more need for packaging.
- toss1 1y ago
  Not much; I used to think the same thing. But there are many ways to make the same chemicals from bio sources, either directly grown (corn or soy as feedstocks) or more processed, or bioengineered so bacteria convert some bio input to the desired chemicals
thescriptkiddie 1y ago
somebody once said oil is too valuable to burn for fuel. the important part are the petrochemicals, but the demand for fuel is so high that's where the money is

parliament32 1y ago

> I wonder when in the West we'll start mining rubbish dumps Never, because we have virtually unlimited space for landfills, and landfill tech has quietly been improving over the last few centuries, to the point that landfills are cheap, non-polluting, and entirely carbon neutral. Countries with less land mass (Europe et al) prefer incineration (mainly to save space, despite it being significantly worse for the environment and much more expensive (although with the newer energy reclamation efforts this is getting better)). IMO it's not worth worrying about landfills too much. Household waste makes up about 3% of total landfill waste (when you add commercial/industrial/agricultural) in North America. You and your bun wrapper are truly irrelevant in the grand scheme of things.

alanbernstein 1y ago
This is backwards, it's not about eliminating the landfill, it's about recovering the materials which were previously not scarce but now are or will be soon.
- dannyw 1y ago
  Oil-plastics will increase in cost as it becomes more scarce. Bioplastics are increasingly popular, research is making it better and easier to produce, etc. I don’t fret over a plastic wrap. For one, if it’s bread in a supermarket, I want it wrapped, I don’t want someone’s sneeze on it. Plastic for fruits and veggies that you rinse, that’s absurd.
BizarroLand 1y ago
Landfills are likely chock full of Aluminum, Nickel-Cadmium, Lithium, copper, brass, and all sorts of useful metals and chemicals. Sure, the grand majority is going to be food waste, but if you threw it all into an incinerator and melted down the ashes there is probably a decent blend of valuable material mixed in with the waste.
- distances 1y ago
  You don't have separate collection for food (bio) waste?

numpad0 1y ago

Not sure how those are related. We only eat food coming in packaging comparable to transplanted organ because companies can't afford poisoning lawsuits because humans are so expensive. Lots of people especially those generally "up north" undermine risks and therefore costs of food poisoning, but it's real. Haven't those people seen things growing molds?

forty 1y ago
How is plastic on bread related with food poisoning? Here in France baguettes are wrapped in paper and are eaten within a day or two of being made (or else they get dry). if you keep them for long enough, molds will grow on it, then you see them and don't eat that old bread (even though it's unlikely to be too bad for most people, the taste is certainly not great). I'd be surprised if anyone ever got food poisoned with bread.
- jaggederest 1y ago
  > I'd be surprised if anyone ever got food poisoned with bread. I'm about to blow your mind. It was and is one of the most common food poisoning types, especially B. Cereus and everyone's favorite religion-creator, C. purpurea / ergot. Gross image warning (not sure why it's the first thing on the page but...) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ergotism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ergotism
  - iberator 1y ago
    >Changes in agricultural practices and the introduction of disease-resistant crop varieties have largely eliminated ergotism in modern times
    - jaggederest 1y ago
      Correct, but B. Cereus is essentially the most common food poisoning bacteria, depending on what sources you look at.
  - forty 1y ago

userbinator 1y ago

As soon as there is demand, I'm sure they'll start mining. Provided it doesn't leave the planet, everything is recycled on a long enough timescale.