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I've been aware about the perfectly reusable lithium batteries inside these disposable vapes, which is egregious enough. But the one in the FTA comes with a fu

by beAbU 1y ago

I've been aware about the perfectly reusable lithium batteries inside these disposable vapes, which is egregious enough. But the one in the FTA comes with a full fat microcontroller and USB-C connector! I'm not clear if these connectors are accessible outside or if you need to break open the packaging before being able to get to it. Like you said: "Many layers of stupid are present here" All that hardware must surely be worth more than half the value of the actual product!

rglullis 1y ago
Between (a) component that costs tens of cents to mass produce and can be bought off the shelf and is reusable vs (b) component that needs actual experienced electronics engineers working on a single-use design that can not be repurposed later, I think we'd see that (a) might end up being less wasteful.
- afiori 1y ago
  > can not be repurposed later whether it can be repurposed is worth little in being wasteful if >99% go to the landfill. > I think we'd see that (a) might end up being less wasteful. Monetarily? sure. Environmentally? unlikely
  - jayd16 1y ago
    It's not so much that 99% go to the landfill, but this product does. Other products that use the same parts might be more reusable. The point is that, most likely, the controller existed before this vape. Buying an off the shelf part can be cheaper than trying to bring up some custom part, both in cost and possibly in overall resources.
  - rglullis 1y ago
    Environmentally, there is very little difference at the landfill if the PCB has an 8 bit microcontroller or a 64 bit ARM chip. The only environment-friendly solution is to forbid this product to exist in the first place.
    - carelyair 1y ago
      Exactly. Why not just sell a reusable vape that can be filled with the extract you want?
      - genewitch 1y ago
        if this is a serious question: it's because politicians bend to pressure from lobbyists and outcry, such that the very idea that a resuable vape means that children can vape pina colada flavored liquids. There was a federal push during Trump v1 to only allow iqos devices in any stores. The two vape brands (maybe 3) allowed in general in my state are manufactured by... if you guessed RJR and PMI, you are correct. The big tobacco farmers and cig manufacturers. Reusable vapes with custom or pre-mixed flavors were attacked hard. I still have a couple liters of 100mg/ml nicotine in my freezer, for making custom flavors at home. I don't even know if you can still order nicotine in that ratio anymore in the US.
        deleted 1y ago
        [deleted]
      - deleted 1y ago
        [deleted]
      - nucleardog 1y ago
        > Why not just sell a reusable vape that can be filled with the extract you want? That's where the vapes started, and they still sell them. I have a battery holder that's really just some control circuitry and a spot to shove an 18650. On that goes the tank which holds liquid and is refillable. Inside of that goes the "coil" which is the wick and heating element. Daily I add a bit more fluid. Every 2-4 weeks I replace the coil. Every 1-2 years I replace the battery holder and tank. The 18650s I swap between to power it are 6-8 years old and still going. (I'd replace the battery holder and tank less frequently, but I just can't find any that will last much longer than that banging around in my pocket and suffering the occasional drop or fall. All-in-all though, I've minimized the waste about as much as I reasonably can without quitting entirely.) Somewhere in between and closer to what people are buying as "disposable" you can get refillable pods like my wife has. The "base" has a built-in battery and the circuitry. The tank and coil are a single unit. You add fluid and keep refilling until the wick/coil are gummed up, then toss the entire tank and coil... but keep the same battery/electronics. Really, it's almost the exact same thing as these disposable units just with _very minimal_ changes to make them reusable. Which is why I think these disposable units are extra heinous. There's just no reason for them to exist at all.
- dijit 1y ago
  I don't follow the logic. Because humans are expensive? Or because we can maybe re-use the components if an (expensive) human comes and retrieves the components? Sorry for being dumb here.
  - rglullis 1y ago
    A combination of: - humans are expensive. - If you want a custom part, you will need specialized equipment to build that part. - If you want a custom part, you will maybe need to transport that part all around the world, while the off-the-shelf components might already be available close to your assembly plant.
pbhjpbhj 1y ago
>All that hardware must surely be worth more than half the value of the actual product! I'm constantly struck at how bread (a pastry, say) in a plastic tray, wrapped in plastic, is so crazy to me. The effort and technology that went, and goes, into oil extraction and such - only to throw the packaging away immediately that I get home ... it's just so unsustainable. I wonder when in the West we'll start mining rubbish dumps ('refuse sites' where household waste is buried)? Maybe we already have? I know in developing countries people spend their days manually picking over such places.
- jazzyjackson 1y ago
  The cheapness of plastic just to speaks to the enormous demand for all the other oil products sold, it's practically a byproduct.
  - carelyair 1y ago
    What will happen to the price of plastic when demand for oil starts reducing for mobility and heating with the move to electricity energy?
    - Dilettante_ 1y ago
      Flying pigs will deliver our food directly from the production point, no more need for packaging.
    - toss1 1y ago
      Not much; I used to think the same thing. But there are many ways to make the same chemicals from bio sources, either directly grown (corn or soy as feedstocks) or more processed, or bioengineered so bacteria convert some bio input to the desired chemicals
  - thescriptkiddie 1y ago
    somebody once said oil is too valuable to burn for fuel. the important part are the petrochemicals, but the demand for fuel is so high that's where the money is
dole 1y ago
The USB-C connectors are mostly for charging, and IME it'll take 4-6 full cycle charges until most are out of vape juice and disposable so they're always accessible. The packaging usually is snap-together with no screws so it's a puzzle. I'm still surprised to see the fancier LCDs used which range from 2x4cm - slim 1.5x3cm (Digiflower, Raz is super popular.) Most LCD vapes which range from $20-25 are starting to fall by the wayside for $13-15 vapes with simple SMD LED displays with color overlays, (Kadobar, Geek Bar, Cookies, North) easy to make 7-segments for battery/juice status. Some are elaborate with wraparound displays that I've mistaken for flexible OLED and are deceptively cheap.

by beAbU 1y ago

rglullis 1y ago

Between (a) component that costs tens of cents to mass produce and can be bought off the shelf and is reusable vs (b) component that needs actual experienced electronics engineers working on a single-use design that can not be repurposed later, I think we'd see that (a) might end up being less wasteful.

afiori 1y ago
> can not be repurposed later whether it can be repurposed is worth little in being wasteful if >99% go to the landfill. > I think we'd see that (a) might end up being less wasteful. Monetarily? sure. Environmentally? unlikely
- jayd16 1y ago
  It's not so much that 99% go to the landfill, but this product does. Other products that use the same parts might be more reusable. The point is that, most likely, the controller existed before this vape. Buying an off the shelf part can be cheaper than trying to bring up some custom part, both in cost and possibly in overall resources.
- rglullis 1y ago
  Environmentally, there is very little difference at the landfill if the PCB has an 8 bit microcontroller or a 64 bit ARM chip. The only environment-friendly solution is to forbid this product to exist in the first place.
  - carelyair 1y ago
    Exactly. Why not just sell a reusable vape that can be filled with the extract you want?
    - genewitch 1y ago
      if this is a serious question: it's because politicians bend to pressure from lobbyists and outcry, such that the very idea that a resuable vape means that children can vape pina colada flavored liquids. There was a federal push during Trump v1 to only allow iqos devices in any stores. The two vape brands (maybe 3) allowed in general in my state are manufactured by... if you guessed RJR and PMI, you are correct. The big tobacco farmers and cig manufacturers. Reusable vapes with custom or pre-mixed flavors were attacked hard. I still have a couple liters of 100mg/ml nicotine in my freezer, for making custom flavors at home. I don't even know if you can still order nicotine in that ratio anymore in the US.
      - deleted 1y ago
        [deleted]
    - deleted 1y ago
      [deleted]
    - nucleardog 1y ago
      > Why not just sell a reusable vape that can be filled with the extract you want? That's where the vapes started, and they still sell them. I have a battery holder that's really just some control circuitry and a spot to shove an 18650. On that goes the tank which holds liquid and is refillable. Inside of that goes the "coil" which is the wick and heating element. Daily I add a bit more fluid. Every 2-4 weeks I replace the coil. Every 1-2 years I replace the battery holder and tank. The 18650s I swap between to power it are 6-8 years old and still going. (I'd replace the battery holder and tank less frequently, but I just can't find any that will last much longer than that banging around in my pocket and suffering the occasional drop or fall. All-in-all though, I've minimized the waste about as much as I reasonably can without quitting entirely.) Somewhere in between and closer to what people are buying as "disposable" you can get refillable pods like my wife has. The "base" has a built-in battery and the circuitry. The tank and coil are a single unit. You add fluid and keep refilling until the wick/coil are gummed up, then toss the entire tank and coil... but keep the same battery/electronics. Really, it's almost the exact same thing as these disposable units just with _very minimal_ changes to make them reusable. Which is why I think these disposable units are extra heinous. There's just no reason for them to exist at all.
dijit 1y ago
I don't follow the logic. Because humans are expensive? Or because we can maybe re-use the components if an (expensive) human comes and retrieves the components? Sorry for being dumb here.
- rglullis 1y ago
  A combination of: - humans are expensive. - If you want a custom part, you will need specialized equipment to build that part. - If you want a custom part, you will maybe need to transport that part all around the world, while the off-the-shelf components might already be available close to your assembly plant.

pbhjpbhj 1y ago

>All that hardware must surely be worth more than half the value of the actual product! I'm constantly struck at how bread (a pastry, say) in a plastic tray, wrapped in plastic, is so crazy to me. The effort and technology that went, and goes, into oil extraction and such - only to throw the packaging away immediately that I get home ... it's just so unsustainable. I wonder when in the West we'll start mining rubbish dumps ('refuse sites' where household waste is buried)? Maybe we already have? I know in developing countries people spend their days manually picking over such places.

jazzyjackson 1y ago
The cheapness of plastic just to speaks to the enormous demand for all the other oil products sold, it's practically a byproduct.
- carelyair 1y ago
  What will happen to the price of plastic when demand for oil starts reducing for mobility and heating with the move to electricity energy?
  - Dilettante_ 1y ago
    Flying pigs will deliver our food directly from the production point, no more need for packaging.
  - toss1 1y ago
    Not much; I used to think the same thing. But there are many ways to make the same chemicals from bio sources, either directly grown (corn or soy as feedstocks) or more processed, or bioengineered so bacteria convert some bio input to the desired chemicals
- thescriptkiddie 1y ago
  somebody once said oil is too valuable to burn for fuel. the important part are the petrochemicals, but the demand for fuel is so high that's where the money is

dole 1y ago

The USB-C connectors are mostly for charging, and IME it'll take 4-6 full cycle charges until most are out of vape juice and disposable so they're always accessible. The packaging usually is snap-together with no screws so it's a puzzle. I'm still surprised to see the fancier LCDs used which range from 2x4cm - slim 1.5x3cm (Digiflower, Raz is super popular.) Most LCD vapes which range from $20-25 are starting to fall by the wayside for $13-15 vapes with simple SMD LED displays with color overlays, (Kadobar, Geek Bar, Cookies, North) easy to make 7-segments for battery/juice status. Some are elaborate with wraparound displays that I've mistaken for flexible OLED and are deceptively cheap.