4 ms·

1) The Amish do not live an 1800 lifestyle. For example, if someone is sick and needs to go to the hospital, they use a phone to call an ambulance to take them

1) The Amish do not live an 1800 lifestyle. For example, if someone is sick and needs to go to the hospital, they use a phone to call an ambulance to take them there. 2) There are a lot of things wrong with the American health care system, but a lack of care for white males is not actually one of them.

aarond0623 1y ago
> There are a lot of things wrong with the American health care system, but a lack of care for white males is not actually one of them. A lack of care for those who can't afford it is, though.
- greenavocado 1y ago
  US hospital waiting rooms are filled with poor people btw. https://www.cms.gov/priorities/your-patient-rights/emergency-room-rights https://www.cms.gov/priorities/your-patient-rights/emergency... You have rights in an emergency room under EMTALA Doctor talking to a patient You have these protections: 1. An appropriate medical screening exam to check for an emergency medical condition, and if you have one, 2. Treatment until your emergency medical condition is stabilized, or 3. An appropriate transfer to another hospital if you need it The law that gives everyone in the U.S. these protections is the Emergency Medical Treatment and Labor Act, also known as "EMTALA." This law helps prevent any hospital emergency department that receives Medicare funds (which includes most U.S. hospitals) from refusing to treat patients.
- runjake 1y ago
  I almost want to disagree with you here but I’m not fully apprised of the greater situation. My dad is poor and neglectful of himself. He had a stroke. He got ambulanced to the emergency room and spent a good deal of time there. The hospital discussed billing which was several hundreds of thousands of dollars. Well he can’t afford that. The hospital had us talk to some advisers and they got him on a state Medicaid (?) plan. The plan retroactively paid for it all. He then got checked out for a variety of other issues including a severe spinal issue and a hip replacement for 0 out of pocket. It’s great. He’s a changed man who is active and takes care of himself now. I also had a major medical event and I have since paid tens of thousands out of pocket after insurance. At one point we were investigating if I could essentially quit work for a bit, go on the Medicaid plan, get better, and then go back to my job. That is madness!
  - BobaFloutist 1y ago
    It's dependent on state and local hospitals. States that opted into the ACA Medicaid Expansion and generally fund hospitals have great emergency care for poor people. There's a kind of missing middle where once you're above the income threshold for Medicaid but aren't working for a job that's willing to fund an extremely good health plan you have to deal with all sorts of deductibles and prior authorizations and stuff. Plus, non-emergency care, especially from specialists, has gotten longer and longer wait times unless you're lucky enough to live in a region with mostly healthy people that also aren't the "worried well." Tl;dr, it's incredibly patchwork, and everyone's experience is going to vary depending on their state's individual social safety net, the overall health of their local population, the particular insurance network and hospital network they have access to, and their individual income. Also, the US has a federal law that no hospital that accepts Medicare patients is allowed to deny care in the case of an emergency based on someone's ability to pay. That means that a lot of very poor people will get incredibly expensive emergency care for free, while not being able to afford the basic preventative care that would keep them out of a state of medical emergency. That isn't really the hallmark of a particularly functional system.
rossdavidh 1y ago
...also, plenty of EU countries appear to have a life expectancy, for males, less than the 76 years of Amish men for this cohort: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_European_countries_by_life_expectancy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_European_countries_by_...
- orwin 1y ago
  Probably eastern European countries haven't caught up yet in safety and public health, but its coming.
  - alkyon 1y ago
    In the last ten years Poland life expectancy has risen by 5 years, in the same time period US was almost stalled. Now (as of the 2025 projection), Poland has slightly better LE overall. However, approx. 9% of US population is uninsured, in Europe (including Eastern Europe) health care systems are universal. Edit: Even for those insured, insurance claim rejection rate is 19%
    - orwin 1y ago
      Yeah, agree. Medecine there has caught up in Poland for sure, and it's catching up in Romania and Hungary too. Eastern europe will have road safety issues for a long time though, so i don't see them reaching WE europe LE at birth until like 2050 (as long as WE don't crash its LE by americanizing, which it might do). LE at 60 though should be around the same level soon enough (road safety do impact older people, but not as much as kids and young men)
      - alkyon 1y ago
        Road fatalities in Poland and Czechia were 50 per million inhabitants in 2022 according to this report. https://road-safety.transport.ec.europa.eu/document/download/b30e9840-4c22-4056-9dab-0231a98e7356_en?filename=ERSOnext_AnnualReport_20240229.pdf https://road-safety.transport.ec.europa.eu/document/download... This is already less than Italy and only slightly above EU average. I don't think that small number affects much LE though.
runjake 1y ago
I know a number of white males who would disagree with you, myself included. All it takes is a single, major non-routine event to learn that lesson. The system is really broken for everyone and the incentives are really skewed away from healthcare. It was the first time I realized that people are existentially truly on their own and despite its claims, “the system” truly isn’t there for them.
gwbas1c 1y ago
> The Amish do not live an 1800 lifestyle. For example, if someone is sick and needs to go to the hospital, they use a phone to call an ambulance to take them there. The Amish are very deliberate about what changes they incorporate into their communities. Each community also sets their own rules, so it's poor practice to generalize. (For example, their attitudes towards electricity are quite complicated and I don't think I could do it justice in a quick post.)
stronglikedan 1y ago
> but a lack of care for white males is not actually one of them racist, or just naive?

aarond0623 1y ago

> There are a lot of things wrong with the American health care system, but a lack of care for white males is not actually one of them. A lack of care for those who can't afford it is, though.

greenavocado 1y ago
US hospital waiting rooms are filled with poor people btw. https://www.cms.gov/priorities/your-patient-rights/emergency-room-rights https://www.cms.gov/priorities/your-patient-rights/emergency... You have rights in an emergency room under EMTALA Doctor talking to a patient You have these protections: 1. An appropriate medical screening exam to check for an emergency medical condition, and if you have one, 2. Treatment until your emergency medical condition is stabilized, or 3. An appropriate transfer to another hospital if you need it The law that gives everyone in the U.S. these protections is the Emergency Medical Treatment and Labor Act, also known as "EMTALA." This law helps prevent any hospital emergency department that receives Medicare funds (which includes most U.S. hospitals) from refusing to treat patients.
runjake 1y ago
I almost want to disagree with you here but I’m not fully apprised of the greater situation. My dad is poor and neglectful of himself. He had a stroke. He got ambulanced to the emergency room and spent a good deal of time there. The hospital discussed billing which was several hundreds of thousands of dollars. Well he can’t afford that. The hospital had us talk to some advisers and they got him on a state Medicaid (?) plan. The plan retroactively paid for it all. He then got checked out for a variety of other issues including a severe spinal issue and a hip replacement for 0 out of pocket. It’s great. He’s a changed man who is active and takes care of himself now. I also had a major medical event and I have since paid tens of thousands out of pocket after insurance. At one point we were investigating if I could essentially quit work for a bit, go on the Medicaid plan, get better, and then go back to my job. That is madness!
- BobaFloutist 1y ago
  It's dependent on state and local hospitals. States that opted into the ACA Medicaid Expansion and generally fund hospitals have great emergency care for poor people. There's a kind of missing middle where once you're above the income threshold for Medicaid but aren't working for a job that's willing to fund an extremely good health plan you have to deal with all sorts of deductibles and prior authorizations and stuff. Plus, non-emergency care, especially from specialists, has gotten longer and longer wait times unless you're lucky enough to live in a region with mostly healthy people that also aren't the "worried well." Tl;dr, it's incredibly patchwork, and everyone's experience is going to vary depending on their state's individual social safety net, the overall health of their local population, the particular insurance network and hospital network they have access to, and their individual income. Also, the US has a federal law that no hospital that accepts Medicare patients is allowed to deny care in the case of an emergency based on someone's ability to pay. That means that a lot of very poor people will get incredibly expensive emergency care for free, while not being able to afford the basic preventative care that would keep them out of a state of medical emergency. That isn't really the hallmark of a particularly functional system.

rossdavidh 1y ago

...also, plenty of EU countries appear to have a life expectancy, for males, less than the 76 years of Amish men for this cohort: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_European_countries_by_life_expectancy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_European_countries_by_...

orwin 1y ago
Probably eastern European countries haven't caught up yet in safety and public health, but its coming.
- alkyon 1y ago
  In the last ten years Poland life expectancy has risen by 5 years, in the same time period US was almost stalled. Now (as of the 2025 projection), Poland has slightly better LE overall. However, approx. 9% of US population is uninsured, in Europe (including Eastern Europe) health care systems are universal. Edit: Even for those insured, insurance claim rejection rate is 19%
  - orwin 1y ago
    Yeah, agree. Medecine there has caught up in Poland for sure, and it's catching up in Romania and Hungary too. Eastern europe will have road safety issues for a long time though, so i don't see them reaching WE europe LE at birth until like 2050 (as long as WE don't crash its LE by americanizing, which it might do). LE at 60 though should be around the same level soon enough (road safety do impact older people, but not as much as kids and young men)
    - alkyon 1y ago
      Road fatalities in Poland and Czechia were 50 per million inhabitants in 2022 according to this report. https://road-safety.transport.ec.europa.eu/document/download/b30e9840-4c22-4056-9dab-0231a98e7356_en?filename=ERSOnext_AnnualReport_20240229.pdf https://road-safety.transport.ec.europa.eu/document/download... This is already less than Italy and only slightly above EU average. I don't think that small number affects much LE though.

runjake 1y ago

I know a number of white males who would disagree with you, myself included. All it takes is a single, major non-routine event to learn that lesson. The system is really broken for everyone and the incentives are really skewed away from healthcare. It was the first time I realized that people are existentially truly on their own and despite its claims, “the system” truly isn’t there for them.

gwbas1c 1y ago

> The Amish do not live an 1800 lifestyle. For example, if someone is sick and needs to go to the hospital, they use a phone to call an ambulance to take them there. The Amish are very deliberate about what changes they incorporate into their communities. Each community also sets their own rules, so it's poor practice to generalize. (For example, their attitudes towards electricity are quite complicated and I don't think I could do it justice in a quick post.)

stronglikedan 1y ago

> but a lack of care for white males is not actually one of them racist, or just naive?