10 ms·

Not a time to get philosophical when your drone team on the zero line in Ukraine loses comms

by bad_haircut72 1y ago

deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
bruffen 1y ago
[flagged]
tjpnz 1y ago
Which is why they don't use it for that. Too susceptible to jamming and Elon's politics on a given day. All their drones will be fly by (fiber optic) wire now.
- MangoToupe 1y ago
  I think the latest Geran-2s either use starlink (suspect) or guowang (more likely). I can't find reliable confirmation of which one.
  - Yoric 1y ago
    Geran? That's the Russian drones, right?
    - MangoToupe 1y ago
      Yes. A variant of the Iranian Shahed 136 drone.
  - inemesitaffia 1y ago
    Guowang pretty much doesn't exist. They use INS, GNSS and 4G
- dmbche 1y ago
  Many use cases are better served without fiber (as fiber causes limited range, limited payload and need for unhampered (not through tree branches for example) access to target
- sfn42 1y ago
  [flagged]
  - tjpnz 1y ago
    Typically they'll have a spindle that will give them 10KM+ distance. Some have significantly more.
  - simonh 1y ago
    They use optical fibres several km long. Both the Russians and Ukrainians do this heavily now because short range jamming has become very effective. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiber_optic_drone https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiber_optic_drone
  - simne 1y ago
    Optical fiber have serious disadvantages, but it gives reliable and very high quality digital link, length depend on how much fiber drone could have onboard. - For quadrocopters practical up to 30 km; for terrain drones (wheel or caterpillar), could be 60 km or even 90 km.
  - ludwigschubert 1y ago
    You seem to sound dismissive, and it did sound wild to me too, yet that is indeed happening and well documented. The “wires” are kilometer long thin fiber optic cables that are spooled off the drones. See for example: https://www.businessinsider.com/unjammable-fiber-optic-drones-are-covering-ukrainian-forests-in-wires-2025-6 https://www.businessinsider.com/unjammable-fiber-optic-drone...
  - WJW 1y ago
    > You're just gonna have a kilometers long "wire" to control a drone? Yup. Fiber optic cables are lightweight and thin, so you can stick 10 km+ in a spindle on the drone that unwinds as you fly. > I'd much rather just lose some drones to jamming. They seem to be cheap and replaceable. They *are* cheap and replaceable, but you don't send them out for the fun of it. If the drones don't hit the vehicles/soldiers/whatever that you send them at, those enemy assets are going to kill your own soldiers. Especially now that many vehicles on the front lines are equipped with jammers, have non-radio comms is super useful for making sure the drone actually gets where it needs to go. That said only about 20% of FPV drones are fiber optic at the moment, because radio does have a lot of advantages when it comes to range and maneuverability.
- inemesitaffia 1y ago
  They use Starlink to communicate with each other and for over the horizon drone attacks. Most drones are the regular wireless FPV. Not 5G/Starlink/Fiber.
paganel 1y ago
They should always have had a second, back-up option, because relying on such a brittle a thing as satellite comms when fighting a military power like Russia was bound to have issues.
- jwr 1y ago
  I'm pretty sure they know that. Especially as Starlink is brittle mostly because of its (rather disgusting at this point) founder figure and his ramblings. But this is armchair advice: what other options do they have and how do you fund them? (most of Starlink for the Ukrainian army is being paid for by Poland)
  - bamboozled 1y ago
    Eutelsat OneWeb, I believe I read that it's already been deployed Ukraine. I might be wrong but I think I heard it on "Ukraine, the latest" podcast.
    - inemesitaffia 1y ago
      Go look up how much it costs
      - bamboozled 1y ago
        You think Ukraine is paying full price?
        inemesitaffia 1y ago
        Yes I do.
  - inemesitaffia 1y ago
    >most of Starlink for the Ukrainian army is being paid for by Poland This isn't true either by $amount or number of dishes SATCOM is brittle because physics. Especially outside C band.
piokoch 1y ago
I think Ukraine is using military version of Starlink - Starshield, maybe it does not have issues.
- inemesitaffia 1y ago
  They use both

Not a time to get philosophical when your drone team on the zero line in Ukraine loses comms

deleted 1y ago

[deleted]

bruffen 1y ago

[flagged]

tjpnz 1y ago

Which is why they don't use it for that. Too susceptible to jamming and Elon's politics on a given day. All their drones will be fly by (fiber optic) wire now.

MangoToupe 1y ago
I think the latest Geran-2s either use starlink (suspect) or guowang (more likely). I can't find reliable confirmation of which one.
- Yoric 1y ago
  Geran? That's the Russian drones, right?
  - MangoToupe 1y ago
    Yes. A variant of the Iranian Shahed 136 drone.
- inemesitaffia 1y ago
  Guowang pretty much doesn't exist. They use INS, GNSS and 4G
dmbche 1y ago
Many use cases are better served without fiber (as fiber causes limited range, limited payload and need for unhampered (not through tree branches for example) access to target
sfn42 1y ago
[flagged]
- tjpnz 1y ago
  Typically they'll have a spindle that will give them 10KM+ distance. Some have significantly more.
- simonh 1y ago
  They use optical fibres several km long. Both the Russians and Ukrainians do this heavily now because short range jamming has become very effective. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiber_optic_drone https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiber_optic_drone
- simne 1y ago
  Optical fiber have serious disadvantages, but it gives reliable and very high quality digital link, length depend on how much fiber drone could have onboard. - For quadrocopters practical up to 30 km; for terrain drones (wheel or caterpillar), could be 60 km or even 90 km.
- ludwigschubert 1y ago
  You seem to sound dismissive, and it did sound wild to me too, yet that is indeed happening and well documented. The “wires” are kilometer long thin fiber optic cables that are spooled off the drones. See for example: https://www.businessinsider.com/unjammable-fiber-optic-drones-are-covering-ukrainian-forests-in-wires-2025-6 https://www.businessinsider.com/unjammable-fiber-optic-drone...
- WJW 1y ago
  > You're just gonna have a kilometers long "wire" to control a drone? Yup. Fiber optic cables are lightweight and thin, so you can stick 10 km+ in a spindle on the drone that unwinds as you fly. > I'd much rather just lose some drones to jamming. They seem to be cheap and replaceable. They *are* cheap and replaceable, but you don't send them out for the fun of it. If the drones don't hit the vehicles/soldiers/whatever that you send them at, those enemy assets are going to kill your own soldiers. Especially now that many vehicles on the front lines are equipped with jammers, have non-radio comms is super useful for making sure the drone actually gets where it needs to go. That said only about 20% of FPV drones are fiber optic at the moment, because radio does have a lot of advantages when it comes to range and maneuverability.
inemesitaffia 1y ago
They use Starlink to communicate with each other and for over the horizon drone attacks. Most drones are the regular wireless FPV. Not 5G/Starlink/Fiber.

paganel 1y ago

They should always have had a second, back-up option, because relying on such a brittle a thing as satellite comms when fighting a military power like Russia was bound to have issues.

jwr 1y ago
I'm pretty sure they know that. Especially as Starlink is brittle mostly because of its (rather disgusting at this point) founder figure and his ramblings. But this is armchair advice: what other options do they have and how do you fund them? (most of Starlink for the Ukrainian army is being paid for by Poland)
- bamboozled 1y ago
  Eutelsat OneWeb, I believe I read that it's already been deployed Ukraine. I might be wrong but I think I heard it on "Ukraine, the latest" podcast.
  - inemesitaffia 1y ago
    Go look up how much it costs
    - bamboozled 1y ago
      You think Ukraine is paying full price?
      - inemesitaffia 1y ago
        Yes I do.
- inemesitaffia 1y ago
  >most of Starlink for the Ukrainian army is being paid for by Poland This isn't true either by $amount or number of dishes SATCOM is brittle because physics. Especially outside C band.

piokoch 1y ago

I think Ukraine is using military version of Starlink - Starshield, maybe it does not have issues.

inemesitaffia 1y ago
They use both