7 ms·

To me it sounds like sparse matrix multiplication repackaged as "event-driven spiking computation", where the spikes are simply the non-zero elements that spars

To me it sounds like sparse matrix multiplication repackaged as "event-driven spiking computation", where the spikes are simply the non-zero elements that sparse GPU kernels have always been designed to process. The supposedly dynamic/temporal nature of the model seems to be not applied for GPU execution, collapsing it into a single static computation equivalent to just applying a pre-calculated sparsity mask. Perhaps a bit cynical of me, but it feels like wrapping standard sparse computing and operator fusion in complex, biological jargon...

GregarianChild 1y ago
The 'brain-inspired' community has always been doing this, since Carver Mead introduced the term 'neuromorphic' in the late 1980s. Reselling banalities as a new great insight. My favourite is "Neuromorphic computing breakthrough could enable blockchain on Mars" [1]. What else can they do? After all, that community has now multiple decades of failure under it's belt. Not a single success. Failure to make progress in AI and failure to say anything of interest about the brain. To paraphrase a US president: In this world nothing can be said to be certain, except death, taxes and neuromphicists exaggerating. (Aside: I was told by someone who applied to YC with a 'neuromorphic' startup that YC said, they don't fund 'neuromorphic'. I am not sure about details ...). The whole 'brain talk' malarkey goes back way longer. In particular psychology and related subjects, since their origins as a specialty in the 19th century, have heavily used brain-inspired metaphors that were intended to mislead. Already in the 19th century that was criticised. See [3] for an interesting discussion. There is something interesting in this post, namely that it's based on non-Nvidia GPUs, in this case MetaX [2]. I don't know how competitive MetaX are today, but I would not bet against China in the longer term. [1] https://cointelegraph.com/news/neuromorphic-computing-breakthrough-enable-blockchain-mars https://cointelegraph.com/news/neuromorphic-computing-breakt... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MetaX https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MetaX [3] K. S. Kendler, A history of metaphorical brain talk in psychiatry. https://www.nature.com/articles/s41380-025-03053-6 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41380-025-03053-6
- janalsncm 1y ago
  > I was told by someone who applied to YC with a 'neuromorphic' startup that YC said, they don't fund 'neuromorphic'. There is something refreshingly consistent in a VC that is laser focused on enterprise CRM dashboard for dashboards workflow optimization ChatGPT wrappers that also filters out the neuromorphicists. Reminds me of how the Samurai were so used to ritual dueling and reading their lineages before battle but when the Mongolians encountered them they just shot the samurai mid-speech.
  - nostrebored 1y ago
    There is — some of these things make money and the others don’t :)
    - OhNoNotAgain_99 1y ago
      [dead]
- justthisguy8578 1y ago
  This is 100% true. It's just very effective and profitable PR. There IS a minority stream in the field that uses the branding to get funding and then builds real tech. But you'll never know it as neuromorphic as the label comes off once it works. Look up Synaptics (touch pad) history.
cpldcpu 1y ago
I believe the argument is that you can also encode information in the time domain. If we just look at spikes as a different numerical representation, then they are clearly inferior. For example, consider that encoding the number 7 will require seven consecutive pulses on a single spiking line. Encoding the number in binary will require one pulse on three parallel lines. Binary encoding wins 7x in speed and 7/3=2.333x in power efficiency... On the other hand, if we assume that we are able to encode information in the gaps between pulses, then things quickly change.
- dist-epoch 1y ago
  > you can also encode information in the time domain. Also known as a serial interface. They are very successful: PCIe lane, SATA, USB.
  - cpldcpu 1y ago
    These interfaces use serialized binary encoding. SNNs are more similar to pulse density modulation (PDM), if you are looking for an electronic equivalent.
- CuriouslyC 1y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frequency-division_multiplexing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frequency-division_multiplexin... The brain is doing shit like this.
  - drob518 1y ago
    And more, I suspect.
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]
- HarHarVeryFunny 1y ago
  I think the main benefit of a neuromorphic design would be to make it dataflow driven (asynchronous event driven - don't update neuron outputs unless their inputs change) rather than synchronous, which is the big power efficiency unlock. This doesn't need to imply a spiking design though - that seems more of an implementation detail, at least as far as dataflow goes. Nature seems to use spike firing rates to encode activation strength. In the brain the relative timing/ordering of different neurons asynchronously activating (A before B, or B before A) is also used (spike-timing-dependent plasticity - STDP) as a learning signal to strengthen or weaken connection strengths, presumably to learn sequence prediction in this asynchronous environment. STDP also doesn't imply that spikes or single neuron spike train inter-spike timings are necessary - an activation event with a strength and timestamp would seem to be enough to implement a digital dataflow design, although ultimately a custom analog design may be more efficient.
drob518 1y ago
Never underestimate the power of marketing.

GregarianChild 1y ago

The 'brain-inspired' community has always been doing this, since Carver Mead introduced the term 'neuromorphic' in the late 1980s. Reselling banalities as a new great insight. My favourite is "Neuromorphic computing breakthrough could enable blockchain on Mars" [1]. What else can they do? After all, that community has now multiple decades of failure under it's belt. Not a single success. Failure to make progress in AI and failure to say anything of interest about the brain. To paraphrase a US president: In this world nothing can be said to be certain, except death, taxes and neuromphicists exaggerating. (Aside: I was told by someone who applied to YC with a 'neuromorphic' startup that YC said, they don't fund 'neuromorphic'. I am not sure about details ...). The whole 'brain talk' malarkey goes back way longer. In particular psychology and related subjects, since their origins as a specialty in the 19th century, have heavily used brain-inspired metaphors that were intended to mislead. Already in the 19th century that was criticised. See [3] for an interesting discussion. There is something interesting in this post, namely that it's based on non-Nvidia GPUs, in this case MetaX [2]. I don't know how competitive MetaX are today, but I would not bet against China in the longer term. [1] https://cointelegraph.com/news/neuromorphic-computing-breakthrough-enable-blockchain-mars https://cointelegraph.com/news/neuromorphic-computing-breakt... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MetaX https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MetaX [3] K. S. Kendler, A history of metaphorical brain talk in psychiatry. https://www.nature.com/articles/s41380-025-03053-6 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41380-025-03053-6

janalsncm 1y ago
> I was told by someone who applied to YC with a 'neuromorphic' startup that YC said, they don't fund 'neuromorphic'. There is something refreshingly consistent in a VC that is laser focused on enterprise CRM dashboard for dashboards workflow optimization ChatGPT wrappers that also filters out the neuromorphicists. Reminds me of how the Samurai were so used to ritual dueling and reading their lineages before battle but when the Mongolians encountered them they just shot the samurai mid-speech.
- nostrebored 1y ago
  There is — some of these things make money and the others don’t :)
  - OhNoNotAgain_99 1y ago
    [dead]
justthisguy8578 1y ago
This is 100% true. It's just very effective and profitable PR. There IS a minority stream in the field that uses the branding to get funding and then builds real tech. But you'll never know it as neuromorphic as the label comes off once it works. Look up Synaptics (touch pad) history.

cpldcpu 1y ago

I believe the argument is that you can also encode information in the time domain. If we just look at spikes as a different numerical representation, then they are clearly inferior. For example, consider that encoding the number 7 will require seven consecutive pulses on a single spiking line. Encoding the number in binary will require one pulse on three parallel lines. Binary encoding wins 7x in speed and 7/3=2.333x in power efficiency... On the other hand, if we assume that we are able to encode information in the gaps between pulses, then things quickly change.

dist-epoch 1y ago
> you can also encode information in the time domain. Also known as a serial interface. They are very successful: PCIe lane, SATA, USB.
- cpldcpu 1y ago
  These interfaces use serialized binary encoding. SNNs are more similar to pulse density modulation (PDM), if you are looking for an electronic equivalent.
CuriouslyC 1y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frequency-division_multiplexing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frequency-division_multiplexin... The brain is doing shit like this.
- drob518 1y ago
  And more, I suspect.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
HarHarVeryFunny 1y ago
I think the main benefit of a neuromorphic design would be to make it dataflow driven (asynchronous event driven - don't update neuron outputs unless their inputs change) rather than synchronous, which is the big power efficiency unlock. This doesn't need to imply a spiking design though - that seems more of an implementation detail, at least as far as dataflow goes. Nature seems to use spike firing rates to encode activation strength. In the brain the relative timing/ordering of different neurons asynchronously activating (A before B, or B before A) is also used (spike-timing-dependent plasticity - STDP) as a learning signal to strengthen or weaken connection strengths, presumably to learn sequence prediction in this asynchronous environment. STDP also doesn't imply that spikes or single neuron spike train inter-spike timings are necessary - an activation event with a strength and timestamp would seem to be enough to implement a digital dataflow design, although ultimately a custom analog design may be more efficient.

drob518 1y ago

Never underestimate the power of marketing.