3 ms·

There is also non manual, non GCed manual management. I agree that a GC can be a viable implementation of memory management though.

pjmlp 1y ago
There isn't such thing, if you mean Rust, affine types systems require tree structures and have issues with multiple scopes, hence the memes with borrow checker. Which I would refer as compiler assisted, although not really a proper term. There is a reason outside Rust, everyone else is string to combine GC alongside affine/linear/effects/dependent types instead of one solution for everything. The productivity of having a GC, with the type system capabilities to go lower level, when the profiler says so. Although I have to conceded, Rust made a great job bringing ATS and Cyclone ideas into mainstream. Additionally with AI powered languages, naturally most of this will be automated anyway.
- OtomotO 1y ago
  Ref counting is also no GC by the definition of a GC I was brought up with. But yes, I was also thinking about the borrow checker. Not necessarily in Rust, as other languages start to adopt similar techniques.
  - vips7L 1y ago
    Most academic definitions of garbage collection include reference counting. It’s just a form of it. https://gchandbook.org/contents.html https://gchandbook.org/contents.html
  - shakna 1y ago
    Maybe not how you were brought up, and people argue... But Watson & Watson, back in '87, described ref counting as "An efficient garbage collection scheme for parallel computer architectures". Even the dragon book refers to ref counting as a form of garbage collection. Line 2 of Ref counting's Wikipedia page refers to garbage collection. People have argued since the invention in 1960, but... Ref counting is one form of GC. [0] It might not be a tracing GC, but it is GC. [0] https://dl.acm.org/doi/10.1145/367487.367501 https://dl.acm.org/doi/10.1145/367487.367501
  - pjmlp 1y ago
    Then somehow someone has taught you badly, any proper CS reference book in academia has it, like the famous GC Handbook, https://gchandbook.org/ https://gchandbook.org/ The other languages adopting such type systems, also keep automatic resource management around for productivity. The ones that don't, are still in the looking for meaningful adoption stage.
  - pron 1y ago
    As refcounting and tracing are the two primary starting points for garbage collection, they're its two pillars so to speak (e.g. https://web.eecs.umich.edu/~weimerw/2012-4610/reading/bacon-garbage.pdf https://web.eecs.umich.edu/~weimerw/2012-4610/reading/bacon-...), I don't know of any serious person in the memory management space who doesn't see refcounting as a GC, although some languages with a refcounting GC say "they don't have a GC" in their marketing material. As a general rule, tracing seeks to optimise for throughput while refcounting seeks to optimise for footprint, although the two can become more elaborate and converge (as shown in the paper I linked).
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]

pjmlp 1y ago

There isn't such thing, if you mean Rust, affine types systems require tree structures and have issues with multiple scopes, hence the memes with borrow checker. Which I would refer as compiler assisted, although not really a proper term. There is a reason outside Rust, everyone else is string to combine GC alongside affine/linear/effects/dependent types instead of one solution for everything. The productivity of having a GC, with the type system capabilities to go lower level, when the profiler says so. Although I have to conceded, Rust made a great job bringing ATS and Cyclone ideas into mainstream. Additionally with AI powered languages, naturally most of this will be automated anyway.

OtomotO 1y ago
Ref counting is also no GC by the definition of a GC I was brought up with. But yes, I was also thinking about the borrow checker. Not necessarily in Rust, as other languages start to adopt similar techniques.
- vips7L 1y ago
  Most academic definitions of garbage collection include reference counting. It’s just a form of it. https://gchandbook.org/contents.html https://gchandbook.org/contents.html
- shakna 1y ago
  Maybe not how you were brought up, and people argue... But Watson & Watson, back in '87, described ref counting as "An efficient garbage collection scheme for parallel computer architectures". Even the dragon book refers to ref counting as a form of garbage collection. Line 2 of Ref counting's Wikipedia page refers to garbage collection. People have argued since the invention in 1960, but... Ref counting is one form of GC. [0] It might not be a tracing GC, but it is GC. [0] https://dl.acm.org/doi/10.1145/367487.367501 https://dl.acm.org/doi/10.1145/367487.367501
- pjmlp 1y ago
  Then somehow someone has taught you badly, any proper CS reference book in academia has it, like the famous GC Handbook, https://gchandbook.org/ https://gchandbook.org/ The other languages adopting such type systems, also keep automatic resource management around for productivity. The ones that don't, are still in the looking for meaningful adoption stage.
- pron 1y ago
  As refcounting and tracing are the two primary starting points for garbage collection, they're its two pillars so to speak (e.g. https://web.eecs.umich.edu/~weimerw/2012-4610/reading/bacon-garbage.pdf https://web.eecs.umich.edu/~weimerw/2012-4610/reading/bacon-...), I don't know of any serious person in the memory management space who doesn't see refcounting as a GC, although some languages with a refcounting GC say "they don't have a GC" in their marketing material. As a general rule, tracing seeks to optimise for throughput while refcounting seeks to optimise for footprint, although the two can become more elaborate and converge (as shown in the paper I linked).
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]