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I'm gathering from the article and comments here and there that "room temperature superconductivity" would be an awesome breakthrough that would lead to lots of
by joshuahedlund 14y ago
I'm gathering from the article and comments here and there that "room temperature superconductivity" would be an awesome breakthrough that would lead to lots of awesome things, but I'm not familiar with this sort of thing. Can you guys give some examples of why this would be so awesome?
- saulrh 14y agoOne simple answer: lossless power transmission over long distance. A measurable percentage of our electrical generation is lost in powerlines or transformers without doing any useful work.
- glhaynes 14y agoI would imagine this might also affect strategy regarding power plant placement.
- fghh45sdfhr3 14y agoExactly, one of the big barriers to renewable energy now is that the sources of it, like areas with more wind or sunshine, are very far from the main consumers, like large east coast cities in the US. On a global scale, with no transmission loss, Egypt could use the Sahara to export solar energy to Japan.
- thirdhaf 14y agoZero loss is only true for DC transmission. It's true, loss is lower than copper at 50-60Hz AC but radiative losses don't magically disappear. You're also limited in how much current you can carry since superconductivity breaks down in sufficiently high magnetic fields. For all that room temperature superconductors are revolutionary because of the jump in power density in things like motors and yes power lines.
- andrewflnr 14y agoBut didn't we only use AC because it was more efficient? So we switch back, and turn it back into AC for our houses, until we can switch over completely.
- anovikov 14y agoNo. We are using AC because it is much easier to convert voltages with AC (by using a transformer) than with DC. Generator can't give very high voltage, it is in the range of a few kilovolts, but that voltage can't be efficiently transported over long distances due to heat losses (yes avoidable with superconductivity), and super high (100s of kilovolts) voltage can't be used by consumers, so when delivered, it has to be driven down to 100s of volts (in a few stages). Superconductivity will change all of that (maybe in a 100 years or so since existing power infrastructure is worth hundreds of billions if not trillions and is a pain to replace).
- andrewflnr 14y agoOk, so we only use AC because it lets us use more efficient voltages. I think we understand each other.
- AnIrishDuck 14y agoAlso, tying back into what you said about efficiency: AC power can be much more efficient due to this easy transformation. The power dissipated across a resistor (which is a reasonably good model for power lines) is directly proportional to the square of the current passing through it. Thus, by stepping power up to high voltages, you can drastically cut the current and hence resistive losses in the line.
- bencpeters 14y ago...but this whole thread was prefaced on room temperature superconductors. Hypothetically at least, this high voltage advantage wouldn't matter if you could have 0 transmission losses with DC at low voltages.
- patmcguire 14y agoI don't know how much heat in CPUs is based on transmission resistance vs something inherent in the operations done (something analogous to how a Carnot heat engine with 100% theoretical efficiency is impractical) but if you have a circuit with no or significantly less power loss you could blow up Moore's law since if I recall correctly the limiting factor is heat.
- KaeseEs 14y agoAs the wires get smaller and smaller and smaller, resistance becomes a huge problem, and you wind up needing a crapload of repeaters and wasting a ton of power. Consider that r= (rho * L / A), and that you need a ~4nm tantalum sheath around copper wire to keep it from poisoning silicon. What happens to r when the width starts getting really small? 40nm - (4 + 4) = 32nm, 10nm - (4+4) = 2nm, so for a 4x process shrink we've seen a 16x reduction in area assuming height remains constant and that the cross section of the wire is roughly rectangular (neither of those assumptions is perfect). So yes, superconductors would be nice.
- tgb 14y agoThe trend I've seen in Intel processors is that every time they jump down a manufacturing size (eg: 32 vs. 22nm), the power usage (per flop, at least) has gone down. Why's that?
- whatshisface 14y agoSmaller transistors take less energy to switch. The problem with heat dissipation is not that the amount of energy wasted goes up, it is that the [i]ratio[/i] of energy wasted goes up. There is a point where the increase in resistance will nullify the decrease in switching costs, it is at this point where we would need superconductors.
- daniel-cussen 14y agoUse asterisks for italics.
- yk 14y agoFor example, super conductors can 'freeze in' magnetic fields. This means, that the super conductor can essentially only move along the field lines. ( Found this video [1], which shows the effect.) With the same effect you can 'levitate' objects, for example a bookshelf. So there would be endless possibilities for novelty toys. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TeS_U9qFg7Y https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TeS_U9qFg7Y
- ajuc 14y agoWon't regular electromagnet work the same way, just constantly use energy? EDIT: ok, nevermind, it won't. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_levitation http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_levitation http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earnshaw%27s_theorem http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earnshaw%27s_theorem
- tgb 14y agoEarnshaw's theorem only applies to static electromagnetic fields. An electromagnet coupled with some sensors and a computer can give feedback to make stable levitation. But, as you said, it would constantly use energy.
- fghh45sdfhr3 14y agoHave you seen back to the future? Hover boards: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_levitation_device#Superconductors http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_levitation_device#Supe...
- triplepoint217 14y agoThe killer applications would probably be power transmissions (as saulrh mentions) and magnets. It would definitely help make MRI's cheaper and probably smaller, and I think it would probably help a lot with electric motors. Easy long distance power transmission might also help with renewables (think large solar plants in the Sahara or New Mexico with superconducting lines to bring the power without loss to where we want it)
- aqme28 14y agoIn addition to the things stated, electric motors and generators can become much more efficient.
- FrojoS 14y agoAren't they already 95% efficent. Not to much room for improvement.
- tocomment 14y agoAre superconductors also really good at transmitting heat? (I read that in a Niven book, I don't know if it's true). If they are there would be a lot of applications on that front as well.
- nealabq 14y agoA search for "superconductor heat pipe" says Niven is right and superconductors can be used for super-fast cooling. A superconducting wine glass that fits onto a superconducting cold spot on the table. Or a superconducting sleeping bag for those hot mosquito nights. (The sleeping bag also levitates on magnetic lines so you can sleep on air.)
- klipt 14y ago> Or a superconducting sleeping bag for those hot mosquito nights. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mosquito_net http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mosquito_net works pretty well...
- Daniel_Newby 14y agoUnfortunately, electrical superconductors are terrible conductors of heat. Metals conduct heat well because the conduction electrons occassionally scatter off of a thermal vibration, are accelerated, and the travel a good long distance before scattering again. But in a superconductor, the conduction electrons are bonded to each other by quantum mechanics magic. It takes a lot of energy to break one loose, more than you can get from heat. In fact, if the material was hot enough to scatter many of the electrons (the critical temperature), it would stop superconducting. Basically, superconding electrons are a perfect mirror for heat. I have some hope for composite materials made with superconductors. Long nanowhiskers might be able to serve as antennas that carry infrared signals from point A to point B.
- tocomment 14y agoI believe you can also store energy in a super conducting loop (the current just keeps going around forever.) So maybe we'd get a new type of battery if we have room temp superconductors. I haven't been able to find any power density figures on such a device though, so I'm not sure if it would be an improvement over Lion batteries. Anyone know?
- Xcelerate 14y agoThey already have such things. They are called Superconducting Magnetic Energy Storage (SMES): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superconducting_magnetic_energy_storage http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superconducting_magnetic_energy... They're currently used to regulate power grids from unexpected load changes. Superconductors are good at absorbing and releasing large amounts of power very quickly (since there's no resistance), so they are ideal for situations like this. There is a still a big energy cost in cooling these things though.
- SkyMarshal 14y agoCPU's and GPU's that don't get hot. No more need for cooling systems, no limits on hardware design due to need for temp control, smaller computers and laptops and more powerful mobile devices, and longer battery life.
- jodrellblank 14y agoHave you seen this picture on Wikipedia? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:CERN-cables-p1030764.jpg http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:CERN-cables-p1030764.jpg
- jostmey 14y agoMedical imagining (in the Hospital) and imagining of biologically interesting molecular structures (such as small proteins).
- jostmey 14y agoMedical imagining (in the Hospital) and imagining of biologically interesting molecular structures (such as small proteins).
- lutze 14y agoSince everyone is talking about power transmission like a bunch of boring old farts, I'll just leave this here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ws6AAhTw7RA http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ws6AAhTw7RA