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I still don't really understand this story. I know that ICE invaded the factory and detained a few hundred people. They were vanished away and presumably being

I still don't really understand this story. I know that ICE invaded the factory and detained a few hundred people. They were vanished away and presumably being speedily sent back to Korea. Sure. But every article I've read on this makes no statement about whether any of these hundreds of people were actually working without an appropriate visa, or whether they were given the chance to demonstrate their legitimacy, or whether any of these hundreds of people got to defend their case to a judge. Shouting "I'm here legally" while being rounded up by LEOs is not due process. I'm not particularly sympathetic to Hyundai here, and it wouldn't be surprising if they subcontracted a sublegal operation to cut costs. But in a group of a few hundred people it's quite hard to imagine none of them have cases even worth hearing.

ChrisRR 1y ago
Maybe the news reporters don't actually know whether they were there illegally
aeonfox 1y ago
> Most of the people detained were South Korean nationals with the wrong kind of visas. https://www.economist.com/united-states/2025/09/10/the-ice-raid-at-hyundai-was-a-massive-own-goal https://www.economist.com/united-states/2025/09/10/the-ice-r... > I'm not particularly sympathetic to Hyundai here, and it wouldn't be surprising if they subcontracted a sublegal operation to cut costs Often Visa systems are overly complex and it's just a matter of bureaucracy making things impossible within a particular timeline. My cynical lens on this is that someone with a vested interest (like a competing company or a lobbyist from a competing industry) that has the ear of the administration has made this happen. All the same, I imagine this only worsens the risk assessment for the US as a place of investment and business.
- vkou 1y ago
  > My cynical lens on this is that someone with a vested interest (like a competing company or a lobbyist from a competing industry) that has the ear of the administration has made this happen. You don't need to go that far. Simple incompetence, cruelty, a complete lack of accountability and a need to meet quota is a sufficient explanation.
- sandworm101 1y ago
  Like maybe someone other than Hyundai that makes electric cars? Reports said this raid took months to plan. Who had the president's ear a few months ago?
  - aeonfox 1y ago
    > Like maybe someone other than Hyundai that makes electric cars? Well this is specifically a battery plant. So any local competitors with battery products have a vested interest. Or makers of gasoline cars. Or oil refineries, or any company in the supply chain that sells fuel for motor vehicles. Battery plants can also manufacture cells for grid storage, so that includes gas drillers, nuclear, etc. and their whole supply chain. That's just off the top of my head. I'm sure there's more vested interested than that. > Who had the president's ear Specifically I said 'the administration'. Governments are large institutions that are famously impressionable by corporate interests, especially so—and particularly now—in the US where many of the safeties are off in comparison to other modern western democracies. > a few months ago? Regulatory capture happens over a much longer timeframe.
ilsubyeega 1y ago
disclaimer: i'm native korean (living in south korea also) > whether any of these hundreds of people were actually working without an appropriate visa IIRC It appears that many of those arrested entered the country using ESTA which is tourism purposes only. They are likely subcontractors of this company. > It's quite hard to imagine none of them have cases even worth hearing I think it's due to the related investigation was conducted quickly, as most of them entered the country for the same purpose.
- rrobukef 1y ago
  An ESTA is not only for Tourism.
- robertlagrant 1y ago
  > ESTA which is tourism purposes only The ESTA home page says it's business or pleasure. The catch is it's only for trips up to 90 days.
  - izacus 1y ago
    Just to be clear - "business" doesn't mean "work". As in - you're not allowed to do your primary job function on such a visa.
    - robertlagrant 1y ago
      I'm not sure - if I were going for business I would be doing my primary job function. E.g. having meetings or workshops. I couldn't get employment in a local company there on an ESTA, I wouldn't say.
PhantomHour 1y ago
> But every article I've read on this makes no statement about whether any of these hundreds of people were actually working without an appropriate visa This is because ICE is being particularly tight lipped about those details. The New York Times got their hands on the records for 11 detainees. 6 on B1/B2 visas. 4 on 90-day waivers. 1 Unknown. ICE claims visa violations, but the records do not state what work the detainees were actually doing. This is especially relevant for the B1 visas, which do permit certain business activities (including applicable ones for this situation; Meetings, trainings, "installation, service, and repair of foreign-bought machinery". Of particular note is that in one case (out of these 11), ICE's records state there was no visa violation. The worker was deported anyway, forced into a "voluntary" departure. (https://www.nytimes.com/2025/09/12/business/economy/hyundai-raid-worker-visas.html https://www.nytimes.com/2025/09/12/business/economy/hyundai-...) Personal opinion: The degree to which hyundai may or may not have violated the law or operated within previously-tolerated gray areas remains to be seen. But the actions of ICE here are not those of a competent government organisation. There should be clear records, they should be able to readily answer press questions. And yet they don't. Worse still is that one person deported despite there being, even by ICE's own admission, no visa violation. Hard to assume good faith in incomplete or withheld records with such shit going on. And what are other foreign companies to do with this? "Move your manufacturing to America! Oh btw even if you follow all laws to the letter a local chud may deport your workers for being not white enough and ruin the entire project" is an interesting sales pitch.
- 3D30497420 1y ago
  I imagine their argument will be "Well, they should have hired Americans", even if that is completely infeasible. Then, when these places stay poor, they'll blame foreign governments, Democrats, "bureaucrats in DC", "woke" policies, etc. Rinse and repeat.
  - ivan_gammel 1y ago
    Their argument was Trump personally delaying the departure by one day to ask if anyone wants to stay and train American workers. I.e. they understand they messed up, but don’t want to admit any mistake.
3D30497420 1y ago
Here's some more information: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/sep/10/hyundai-factory-ice-raid-legal-visa https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/sep/10/hyundai-fact... Though I cannot say it adds much clarity. Apparently, some people caught in the raid may have had valid visas. Unsurprisingly, the whole thing sounds like a poorly planned mess.
jrmcauliffe 1y ago
I mean, it would be surprising. In what world does Hyundai want to build a multi billion dollar plant in a foreign country and subcontract to a 'sublegal operation' which still has to send foreign nationals, presumably experts in their specific fields along with housing them to 'cut costs'...?
pjc50 1y ago
> whether any of these hundreds of people got to defend their case to a judge. Shouting "I'm here legally" while being rounded up by LEOs is not due process. Well, no, but that's not how US immigration works any more, and never did at the border. Everyone very loudly points out that non-citizens don't have constitutional rights. As a UK employee of a US multinational (+), I think I know what happened here, because it nearly happened to a colleague of mine. He went to visit HQ for a week, and made the mistake of saying at the border that he was coming to "work" rather than "business meetings". Non-visa travel generally allows the latter but not the former, even if the distinction isn't always clear. It seems ludicrous that someone doing the same job for the same employer on the same IT systems suddenly becomes a criminal if they bring themselves and their laptop to HQ for a few days, and up until now this was always waived, along with simply observing that the person had a return ticket and a hotel. Now there's a much bigger risk if you say the "w" word. I suspect what happens is that Hyundai sent over a bunch of Hyundai employees to get the Hyundai factory started, as everyone would expect, without going through the difficult and expensive process of securing short term work visas (which catgegory would this be anyway?) (+) I suppose this makes me the evil offshoring taking all your jobs? Hi guys.
- dotnet00 1y ago
  >Everyone very loudly points out that non-citizens don't have constitutional rights I'm assuming you mean at the border (crossings/airports), the same thing applies to citizens, under the excuse that their citizenship hasn't been verified until they're through immigration.
nasmorn 1y ago
If you start enforcing Labour laws for everyone that is sent between multi nationals a lot of economic activity will simply cease. Do you think every American going abroad for their company has all the right paperwork? If you don’t let Mr Kim who is the only guy who knows how to rig some robots together in because he said something naughty about Trump on Facebook once you will have to build your own factories
- adrianmsmith 1y ago
  I mean, yes, I would hope they have the right paperwork? E.g. if you're going on a business trip then you're going to need a visa allowing business trips, if you're going to work you're going to need a visa that allows work, etc. I don't see why this is unreasonable. If it is unreasonable then the rules need to change - no point having rules if they can't be enforced.
  - rsynnott 1y ago
    There's a lot of ambiguity at the edges, on that. B1 visa (the 'business trip' visa): > A B-1 visa may be granted to specialized workers going to the United States to install, service, or repair commercial or industrial equipment or machinery purchased from a company outside of the United States, or to train U.S. workers to perform such services. So on the face of it you'd think a B1 visa would be sufficient here.
  - _DeadFred_ 1y ago
    Go read Federal court cases and see how much they have to extend 'good faith'. You can't strictly enforce systems on people, it doesn't work. Even Federal courts recognize this and have to extend 'good faith' to Federal officers and trust intentions versus strictly following the rules.
Simulacra 1y ago
It feels like something very shady, is going on with Hyundai, but in order to say face, they keep pointing the finger back at the Americans. Someone on their end made a tremendous mistake, and I think they need to just accept that and admit it.
instagib 1y ago
My understanding is they were able to supervise work, attend meetings, or do specialized work but not general labor. They were found pouring concrete, fitting pipe, and other labor that needed a work visa to perform. If they hired local union guys or did paperwork for one of the eleven types of work visas, then no issue with ICE.

ChrisRR 1y ago

Maybe the news reporters don't actually know whether they were there illegally

aeonfox 1y ago

> Most of the people detained were South Korean nationals with the wrong kind of visas. https://www.economist.com/united-states/2025/09/10/the-ice-raid-at-hyundai-was-a-massive-own-goal https://www.economist.com/united-states/2025/09/10/the-ice-r... > I'm not particularly sympathetic to Hyundai here, and it wouldn't be surprising if they subcontracted a sublegal operation to cut costs Often Visa systems are overly complex and it's just a matter of bureaucracy making things impossible within a particular timeline. My cynical lens on this is that someone with a vested interest (like a competing company or a lobbyist from a competing industry) that has the ear of the administration has made this happen. All the same, I imagine this only worsens the risk assessment for the US as a place of investment and business.

vkou 1y ago
> My cynical lens on this is that someone with a vested interest (like a competing company or a lobbyist from a competing industry) that has the ear of the administration has made this happen. You don't need to go that far. Simple incompetence, cruelty, a complete lack of accountability and a need to meet quota is a sufficient explanation.
sandworm101 1y ago
Like maybe someone other than Hyundai that makes electric cars? Reports said this raid took months to plan. Who had the president's ear a few months ago?
- aeonfox 1y ago
  > Like maybe someone other than Hyundai that makes electric cars? Well this is specifically a battery plant. So any local competitors with battery products have a vested interest. Or makers of gasoline cars. Or oil refineries, or any company in the supply chain that sells fuel for motor vehicles. Battery plants can also manufacture cells for grid storage, so that includes gas drillers, nuclear, etc. and their whole supply chain. That's just off the top of my head. I'm sure there's more vested interested than that. > Who had the president's ear Specifically I said 'the administration'. Governments are large institutions that are famously impressionable by corporate interests, especially so—and particularly now—in the US where many of the safeties are off in comparison to other modern western democracies. > a few months ago? Regulatory capture happens over a much longer timeframe.

ilsubyeega 1y ago

disclaimer: i'm native korean (living in south korea also) > whether any of these hundreds of people were actually working without an appropriate visa IIRC It appears that many of those arrested entered the country using ESTA which is tourism purposes only. They are likely subcontractors of this company. > It's quite hard to imagine none of them have cases even worth hearing I think it's due to the related investigation was conducted quickly, as most of them entered the country for the same purpose.

rrobukef 1y ago
An ESTA is not only for Tourism.
robertlagrant 1y ago
> ESTA which is tourism purposes only The ESTA home page says it's business or pleasure. The catch is it's only for trips up to 90 days.
- izacus 1y ago
  Just to be clear - "business" doesn't mean "work". As in - you're not allowed to do your primary job function on such a visa.
  - robertlagrant 1y ago
    I'm not sure - if I were going for business I would be doing my primary job function. E.g. having meetings or workshops. I couldn't get employment in a local company there on an ESTA, I wouldn't say.

PhantomHour 1y ago

> But every article I've read on this makes no statement about whether any of these hundreds of people were actually working without an appropriate visa This is because ICE is being particularly tight lipped about those details. The New York Times got their hands on the records for 11 detainees. 6 on B1/B2 visas. 4 on 90-day waivers. 1 Unknown. ICE claims visa violations, but the records do not state what work the detainees were actually doing. This is especially relevant for the B1 visas, which do permit certain business activities (including applicable ones for this situation; Meetings, trainings, "installation, service, and repair of foreign-bought machinery". Of particular note is that in one case (out of these 11), ICE's records state there was no visa violation. The worker was deported anyway, forced into a "voluntary" departure. (https://www.nytimes.com/2025/09/12/business/economy/hyundai-raid-worker-visas.html https://www.nytimes.com/2025/09/12/business/economy/hyundai-...) Personal opinion: The degree to which hyundai may or may not have violated the law or operated within previously-tolerated gray areas remains to be seen. But the actions of ICE here are not those of a competent government organisation. There should be clear records, they should be able to readily answer press questions. And yet they don't. Worse still is that one person deported despite there being, even by ICE's own admission, no visa violation. Hard to assume good faith in incomplete or withheld records with such shit going on. And what are other foreign companies to do with this? "Move your manufacturing to America! Oh btw even if you follow all laws to the letter a local chud may deport your workers for being not white enough and ruin the entire project" is an interesting sales pitch.

3D30497420 1y ago
I imagine their argument will be "Well, they should have hired Americans", even if that is completely infeasible. Then, when these places stay poor, they'll blame foreign governments, Democrats, "bureaucrats in DC", "woke" policies, etc. Rinse and repeat.
- ivan_gammel 1y ago
  Their argument was Trump personally delaying the departure by one day to ask if anyone wants to stay and train American workers. I.e. they understand they messed up, but don’t want to admit any mistake.

3D30497420 1y ago

Here's some more information: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/sep/10/hyundai-factory-ice-raid-legal-visa https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/sep/10/hyundai-fact... Though I cannot say it adds much clarity. Apparently, some people caught in the raid may have had valid visas. Unsurprisingly, the whole thing sounds like a poorly planned mess.

jrmcauliffe 1y ago

I mean, it would be surprising. In what world does Hyundai want to build a multi billion dollar plant in a foreign country and subcontract to a 'sublegal operation' which still has to send foreign nationals, presumably experts in their specific fields along with housing them to 'cut costs'...?

pjc50 1y ago

> whether any of these hundreds of people got to defend their case to a judge. Shouting "I'm here legally" while being rounded up by LEOs is not due process. Well, no, but that's not how US immigration works any more, and never did at the border. Everyone very loudly points out that non-citizens don't have constitutional rights. As a UK employee of a US multinational (+), I think I know what happened here, because it nearly happened to a colleague of mine. He went to visit HQ for a week, and made the mistake of saying at the border that he was coming to "work" rather than "business meetings". Non-visa travel generally allows the latter but not the former, even if the distinction isn't always clear. It seems ludicrous that someone doing the same job for the same employer on the same IT systems suddenly becomes a criminal if they bring themselves and their laptop to HQ for a few days, and up until now this was always waived, along with simply observing that the person had a return ticket and a hotel. Now there's a much bigger risk if you say the "w" word. I suspect what happens is that Hyundai sent over a bunch of Hyundai employees to get the Hyundai factory started, as everyone would expect, without going through the difficult and expensive process of securing short term work visas (which catgegory would this be anyway?) (+) I suppose this makes me the evil offshoring taking all your jobs? Hi guys.

dotnet00 1y ago
>Everyone very loudly points out that non-citizens don't have constitutional rights I'm assuming you mean at the border (crossings/airports), the same thing applies to citizens, under the excuse that their citizenship hasn't been verified until they're through immigration.

nasmorn 1y ago

If you start enforcing Labour laws for everyone that is sent between multi nationals a lot of economic activity will simply cease. Do you think every American going abroad for their company has all the right paperwork? If you don’t let Mr Kim who is the only guy who knows how to rig some robots together in because he said something naughty about Trump on Facebook once you will have to build your own factories

adrianmsmith 1y ago
I mean, yes, I would hope they have the right paperwork? E.g. if you're going on a business trip then you're going to need a visa allowing business trips, if you're going to work you're going to need a visa that allows work, etc. I don't see why this is unreasonable. If it is unreasonable then the rules need to change - no point having rules if they can't be enforced.
- rsynnott 1y ago
  There's a lot of ambiguity at the edges, on that. B1 visa (the 'business trip' visa): > A B-1 visa may be granted to specialized workers going to the United States to install, service, or repair commercial or industrial equipment or machinery purchased from a company outside of the United States, or to train U.S. workers to perform such services. So on the face of it you'd think a B1 visa would be sufficient here.
- _DeadFred_ 1y ago
  Go read Federal court cases and see how much they have to extend 'good faith'. You can't strictly enforce systems on people, it doesn't work. Even Federal courts recognize this and have to extend 'good faith' to Federal officers and trust intentions versus strictly following the rules.

Simulacra 1y ago

It feels like something very shady, is going on with Hyundai, but in order to say face, they keep pointing the finger back at the Americans. Someone on their end made a tremendous mistake, and I think they need to just accept that and admit it.

instagib 1y ago

My understanding is they were able to supervise work, attend meetings, or do specialized work but not general labor. They were found pouring concrete, fitting pipe, and other labor that needed a work visa to perform. If they hired local union guys or did paperwork for one of the eleven types of work visas, then no issue with ICE.