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There's also the symptom that almost our entire society is addicted to staring at their phones for at least 4 hours a day. Go literally ANYWHERE and just look a

There's also the symptom that almost our entire society is addicted to staring at their phones for at least 4 hours a day. Go literally ANYWHERE and just look at the people around you if you don't think so.

softwaredoug 1y ago
The counter to phone is dog. My dog stares up at someone until they acknowledge him. Then I end up talking to the person. And everyone has a nice interaction. Usually they get a nice serotonin bump.
rkomorn 1y ago
Yeah. As someone who spends way too much time on their phone... I'm pretty sure that I have access to all kinds of alternatives, and that I have the agency necessary to getting off my phone. I'm pretty sure there's an awful lot more to it.
- teekert 1y ago
  For sure, and you at least acknowledge it. As do I, I'm ashamed of my screen time reports. I feel weak.
  - rkomorn 1y ago
    At some point I started spending more time on my computer to reduce my phone screen time. And the worst part is that that made sense to me for a few days. Big screen = professional tech person. Small screen = phone addicted loser. HN tabs open on both.
    - teekert 1y ago
      I think it is the same as with food, we just have to not get tempted. It probably would take something as radical as getting a dumbphone, DNS blocking additive sites, ditching the toilet-scroller. I'm on a website before I realize it.
    - em500 1y ago
      The addictive substance is the network,not the phone. Nobody gets addicted to any phone disconnected from the internet. OTOH, as you experienced it's easy to spend just as much time on the laptop or desktop when that has a persistent internet connection.
      - lrvick 1y ago
        First thing I did to beat my addiction was keep my phone in airplane mode at all times, and just rely on wifi. After porting my number to a voip provider, i just canceled my cell phone subscription and then the device was no longer a phone, but a wifi tablet. a boring tool i could easily leave at home most of the time until I never took it with me again.
        rkomorn 1y ago
        I often leave my phone in a different room, and that's pretty effective, too. I've started leaving my phone at home when my wife and I go places together. It's not a problem without solutions, of course. It just takes an amount of discipline that feels unreasonably burdensome to me (as in "ugh why is this so hard?!").
      - adolph 1y ago
        > Nobody gets addicted to any phone disconnected from the internet. I'm not certain about that. I remember spending enough breakout time on my iPod that I had to replace the battery.
    - majormajor 1y ago
      Computers still have a lot of pre-24/7-internet applications and patterns compared to phones. You can get all the brain-killing stuff on them, but you also have more options for doing interesting stuff. (Most HN use arguing with strangers is not that. Clearly I'm guilty too.) Ironically for the "you'll rot your brain" panic of the eighties and nineties, a lot of video games are similarly better. Invest 60 hours into a complicated game and you've worked your brain out MASSIVELY more than 60 hours scrolling or watching tiktok. Hell, at this point making it through a pre-2000s TV show or movie can be an attention-span challenge. Where's the constant payoff every 30 seconds like with memes??
      - rkomorn 1y ago
        May I introduce you to Factorio or Satisfactory, for example? :D But yes, I agree. A regular computer offers more "productive" options than a phone. It's just that in my case, I'm an alt-tab away from going back to brain rot, and I am very good at hitting alt-tab.
  - throw0101d 1y ago
    > As do I, I'm ashamed of my screen time reports. I feel weak. While not everyone agrees with all the precepts/concepts, may be worth noting the first step: > 1. We admitted we were powerless over alcohol—that our lives had become unmanageable. * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twelve-step_program https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twelve-step_program One of the reasons 'God' ("as we understood Him") is invoked because you are admitting that you do not have it with-in you to control things (anymore) and that you need 'something' external to help you clamp down on your behaviour.
- lrvick 1y ago
  Literally lock it in a safe for a month and see if after you recalibrate, if you are happier. Not carried a phone in 5 years and one of the best choices I ever made. Nothing you want to do in life requires you owning a phone if you are resourceful.
bsghirt 1y ago
Why is the exact device the problem? 20 years ago everyone on suburban trains would be looking at a newspaper, magazine or book throughout their journey. Then they would watch a couple of hours of TV at home. Why is 'looking at a phone' such a problem, when most of the looking replicates those activities, with much of the rest being basic utilities which didn't exist previously - consulting a map, ordering food or shopping, looking up timetables or schedules?
- sersi 1y ago
  I remember meeting a lot of people by just talking to them in the subway during y daily commute. That happened both in France and Japan. Nowadays with phones it happens a lot less..
  - fn-mote 1y ago
    > talking to them [...] Japan Really struggling to imagine people talking on the subway during their morning commute in Japan!! Culture changes.
  - bsghirt 1y ago
    I commuted by public transit for around two decades before the ubiquity of smartphones and never experienced or witnessed this.
  - throwaway2037 1y ago
    You spoke with "a lot" of people in Japan on the subway during your daily commute? I am stunned here. Can you provide more details? (Years / location / line?) I find this very hard to believe. Metro trains in Tokyo and Osaka (and suburbs) are basically silent except very late when people are drunk, talking with their friends.
    - sersi 1y ago
      Kyoto 2005 to 2008. Mostly Kintetsu and subway (mostly between Kyoto and Nara). Later keihan from demachiyanagi to shijo kawaramachi. I am the one who often initiated the conversation (apart from some osaka bachans who did initiate. I'm using that term of endearment not criticism despite their fearful reputation Osaka bachans are great). There were also significantly less tourists back then. Made a few friends with whom I still stay in touch. Also met my first wife like this. I had the same experience of meeting people in the same way in Shanghai in 2004 (bus and subway). And before that, in France，the bus line I took near my university was filled with students.
WalterBright 1y ago
Yesterday I had a meeting with a friend and wound up having to wait 20 minutes for him. Instead of being bored out of my mind, I doom scrolled.
- tigerlily 1y ago
  That's abominable, sir. We need you to take care of your brain :)
- Dilettante_ 1y ago
  That's the problem actually. Not a second of "boredom", where there isn't something happening. Downtime is important, and I don't mean popping on the TV and vegetating until it's time to go to bed.
- lrvick 1y ago
  bring a mechanical puzzle, or a book to read, or a lock to pick, or a tiny pocketable laptop that allows you to actually be productive, and leave the brainrot device at home, or get rid of it. 5 years free of doom scrolling and never been happier or more productive in my life.

softwaredoug 1y ago

The counter to phone is dog. My dog stares up at someone until they acknowledge him. Then I end up talking to the person. And everyone has a nice interaction. Usually they get a nice serotonin bump.

rkomorn 1y ago

Yeah. As someone who spends way too much time on their phone... I'm pretty sure that I have access to all kinds of alternatives, and that I have the agency necessary to getting off my phone. I'm pretty sure there's an awful lot more to it.

teekert 1y ago
For sure, and you at least acknowledge it. As do I, I'm ashamed of my screen time reports. I feel weak.
- rkomorn 1y ago
  At some point I started spending more time on my computer to reduce my phone screen time. And the worst part is that that made sense to me for a few days. Big screen = professional tech person. Small screen = phone addicted loser. HN tabs open on both.
  - teekert 1y ago
    I think it is the same as with food, we just have to not get tempted. It probably would take something as radical as getting a dumbphone, DNS blocking additive sites, ditching the toilet-scroller. I'm on a website before I realize it.
  - em500 1y ago
    The addictive substance is the network,not the phone. Nobody gets addicted to any phone disconnected from the internet. OTOH, as you experienced it's easy to spend just as much time on the laptop or desktop when that has a persistent internet connection.
    - lrvick 1y ago
      First thing I did to beat my addiction was keep my phone in airplane mode at all times, and just rely on wifi. After porting my number to a voip provider, i just canceled my cell phone subscription and then the device was no longer a phone, but a wifi tablet. a boring tool i could easily leave at home most of the time until I never took it with me again.
      - rkomorn 1y ago
        I often leave my phone in a different room, and that's pretty effective, too. I've started leaving my phone at home when my wife and I go places together. It's not a problem without solutions, of course. It just takes an amount of discipline that feels unreasonably burdensome to me (as in "ugh why is this so hard?!").
    - adolph 1y ago
      > Nobody gets addicted to any phone disconnected from the internet. I'm not certain about that. I remember spending enough breakout time on my iPod that I had to replace the battery.
  - majormajor 1y ago
    Computers still have a lot of pre-24/7-internet applications and patterns compared to phones. You can get all the brain-killing stuff on them, but you also have more options for doing interesting stuff. (Most HN use arguing with strangers is not that. Clearly I'm guilty too.) Ironically for the "you'll rot your brain" panic of the eighties and nineties, a lot of video games are similarly better. Invest 60 hours into a complicated game and you've worked your brain out MASSIVELY more than 60 hours scrolling or watching tiktok. Hell, at this point making it through a pre-2000s TV show or movie can be an attention-span challenge. Where's the constant payoff every 30 seconds like with memes??
    - rkomorn 1y ago
      May I introduce you to Factorio or Satisfactory, for example? :D But yes, I agree. A regular computer offers more "productive" options than a phone. It's just that in my case, I'm an alt-tab away from going back to brain rot, and I am very good at hitting alt-tab.
- throw0101d 1y ago
  > As do I, I'm ashamed of my screen time reports. I feel weak. While not everyone agrees with all the precepts/concepts, may be worth noting the first step: > 1. We admitted we were powerless over alcohol—that our lives had become unmanageable. * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twelve-step_program https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twelve-step_program One of the reasons 'God' ("as we understood Him") is invoked because you are admitting that you do not have it with-in you to control things (anymore) and that you need 'something' external to help you clamp down on your behaviour.
lrvick 1y ago
Literally lock it in a safe for a month and see if after you recalibrate, if you are happier. Not carried a phone in 5 years and one of the best choices I ever made. Nothing you want to do in life requires you owning a phone if you are resourceful.

bsghirt 1y ago

Why is the exact device the problem? 20 years ago everyone on suburban trains would be looking at a newspaper, magazine or book throughout their journey. Then they would watch a couple of hours of TV at home. Why is 'looking at a phone' such a problem, when most of the looking replicates those activities, with much of the rest being basic utilities which didn't exist previously - consulting a map, ordering food or shopping, looking up timetables or schedules?

sersi 1y ago
I remember meeting a lot of people by just talking to them in the subway during y daily commute. That happened both in France and Japan. Nowadays with phones it happens a lot less..
- fn-mote 1y ago
  > talking to them [...] Japan Really struggling to imagine people talking on the subway during their morning commute in Japan!! Culture changes.
- bsghirt 1y ago
  I commuted by public transit for around two decades before the ubiquity of smartphones and never experienced or witnessed this.
- throwaway2037 1y ago
  You spoke with "a lot" of people in Japan on the subway during your daily commute? I am stunned here. Can you provide more details? (Years / location / line?) I find this very hard to believe. Metro trains in Tokyo and Osaka (and suburbs) are basically silent except very late when people are drunk, talking with their friends.
  - sersi 1y ago
    Kyoto 2005 to 2008. Mostly Kintetsu and subway (mostly between Kyoto and Nara). Later keihan from demachiyanagi to shijo kawaramachi. I am the one who often initiated the conversation (apart from some osaka bachans who did initiate. I'm using that term of endearment not criticism despite their fearful reputation Osaka bachans are great). There were also significantly less tourists back then. Made a few friends with whom I still stay in touch. Also met my first wife like this. I had the same experience of meeting people in the same way in Shanghai in 2004 (bus and subway). And before that, in France，the bus line I took near my university was filled with students.

WalterBright 1y ago

Yesterday I had a meeting with a friend and wound up having to wait 20 minutes for him. Instead of being bored out of my mind, I doom scrolled.

tigerlily 1y ago
That's abominable, sir. We need you to take care of your brain :)
Dilettante_ 1y ago
That's the problem actually. Not a second of "boredom", where there isn't something happening. Downtime is important, and I don't mean popping on the TV and vegetating until it's time to go to bed.
lrvick 1y ago
bring a mechanical puzzle, or a book to read, or a lock to pick, or a tiny pocketable laptop that allows you to actually be productive, and leave the brainrot device at home, or get rid of it. 5 years free of doom scrolling and never been happier or more productive in my life.