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ICE has bravely rescued us from the menace of people building battery factories. Forget fentanyl, trafficking, or violent crime—our real existential threat was

ICE has bravely rescued us from the menace of people building battery factories. Forget fentanyl, trafficking, or violent crime—our real existential threat was clearly a few Korean engineers with power tools. Obviously, they were biding their time before graduating to cartel kingpins. And thank heavens the plant won’t be finished—who actually wants it and the jobs, infrastructure, etc it would bring. Sleep well, folks—America is saved, one deported factory worker at a time.

Scoundreller 1y ago
The bit that gets me is another country is kinda handing over its technology to USA, so why get in the way? When US engineers went to China to offshore US factories there, I doubt China got in the way. Probably watched with heavy interest but definitely not hindered in any way.
- fnordpiglet 1y ago
  It’s the other end of the spectrum from migrants from other countries doing the large scale manual labor for little pay by American standards, but high pay by their own. Ultimately everyone benefits. It’s not about economics. It’s about racism and nationalism through and through. You can’t look at it with a rationalist lens or it can’t make sense. The issue is the dilution of a perceived whiteness of the American identity being threatened by non-white immigration. It doesn’t matter why the Korean workers were here or how tenuous or nonexistent the immigration violation claims were. It matters they weren’t white. For proof, which hasn’t been particularly hidden, see the extreme efforts to create a false narrative (including the president confronting a foreign leader with photographs from a completely different country) of white persecution in South Africa and a recalibration of refugee program to prioritize white South Africans. It’s the whole “reverse discrimination” malarkey (as if discrimination is structurally one way) playing out with fabrication and lies since they couldn’t find real facts. A rationalist argument can’t be found, because it’s not rational - it’s just racist nationalism. This is going to be remembered in history globally as one of the embarrassing low points that beggars the question of American moral standing , which is likewise a fallacious tu quoque argument. What’s going on ignores the fact the founding fathers were enlightenment liberal humanists of the extreme degree, and while creatures of their time, endeavored hard to establish a construct in the constitution and bill of rights a system that will eventually and stably arrive at an ideal liberal humanist society. They recognized with pretty clear sightedness their own imperfections in this regard and recognized society changes slowly, but believed the constitution and bill of rights would make the change inexorable. I for one agree after studying it for some time. This means this aberration we see today, which is reminiscent of Sulla’s attack on the Roman republic, was well planned for an accounted for. They knew clearly and better than we do the natural tendency of man, and specifically corrupt ambitious racist theologists as their time was steeped in, and built a system that mean reverts always towards a liberal humanist outcome. The question to my mind is will I live to see the damage undone and is my daughter equipped to right the ship in her life time.
  - 9x39 1y ago
    >Ultimately everyone benefits. >It’s not about economics. What about the local citizen who is clearly neither the migrant nor the capitalist, both of whom conduct wage arbitrage the local doesn't benefit from? How is that not economic and why is that assumed to be racist? Savannah is almost 50% Black https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Savannah,_Georgia#Demographics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Savannah,_Georgia#Demographics but they can't employ a workforce that even maybe resembles the local demographics? Why isn't it rational for the local citizens to see a business skirting the law to get American consumer dollars but avoid American wages and calculate that's not just not to their benefit, its to their detriment?
    - overfeed 1y ago
      > but they can't employ a workforce that even maybe resembles the local demographics? I don't imagine a lot of Americans in Savannah have experience standing up a battery factory, which is also a temporary job by definition.
      - 9x39 1y ago
        Is it that these were hundreds of the best battery factory professional engineers in SK or just a cultural match? How is competence built with any offshoring of a new thing? I think it’s a stretch to say Americans can’t be trained to make a factory. I think the simplest explanation is the likely one: that costs money, we can avoid paying if we use an underclass that doesn’t follow the rules or share the costs of locals we can undercut.
        overfeed 1y ago
        > Is it that these were hundreds of the best battery factory professional engineers in SK or just a cultural match? SK has been building battery factories for a while, naturally, they ended up with an experienced talent pool. > How is competence built with any offshoring of a new thing? China has the blueprint: enforce knowledge sharing/knowledge transfer to local entities, and provide adequate direction and government funding. > I think it’s a stretch to say Americans can’t be trained to make a factory. Experience =/= capability - Americans certainly can be trained, but who's paying (and waiting) for that? Does it make economic sense to do so for a one-and-done project? LG Chem (and its vendor ecosystem) have been building battery factories for well over a decade now, and will continue to use that competency. What would happen to your hypothetical newly-trained, all-American battery-factory builders once the Savannah project is up and running? Especially under this administration that is set on cutting the knees from under renewables.
nielsbot 1y ago
> who actually wants it and the jobs, infrastructure, etc it would bring. I mean--if it's green tech, it has to be impeded. Otherwise how can we continue to burn oil?

Scoundreller 1y ago

The bit that gets me is another country is kinda handing over its technology to USA, so why get in the way? When US engineers went to China to offshore US factories there, I doubt China got in the way. Probably watched with heavy interest but definitely not hindered in any way.

fnordpiglet 1y ago
It’s the other end of the spectrum from migrants from other countries doing the large scale manual labor for little pay by American standards, but high pay by their own. Ultimately everyone benefits. It’s not about economics. It’s about racism and nationalism through and through. You can’t look at it with a rationalist lens or it can’t make sense. The issue is the dilution of a perceived whiteness of the American identity being threatened by non-white immigration. It doesn’t matter why the Korean workers were here or how tenuous or nonexistent the immigration violation claims were. It matters they weren’t white. For proof, which hasn’t been particularly hidden, see the extreme efforts to create a false narrative (including the president confronting a foreign leader with photographs from a completely different country) of white persecution in South Africa and a recalibration of refugee program to prioritize white South Africans. It’s the whole “reverse discrimination” malarkey (as if discrimination is structurally one way) playing out with fabrication and lies since they couldn’t find real facts. A rationalist argument can’t be found, because it’s not rational - it’s just racist nationalism. This is going to be remembered in history globally as one of the embarrassing low points that beggars the question of American moral standing , which is likewise a fallacious tu quoque argument. What’s going on ignores the fact the founding fathers were enlightenment liberal humanists of the extreme degree, and while creatures of their time, endeavored hard to establish a construct in the constitution and bill of rights a system that will eventually and stably arrive at an ideal liberal humanist society. They recognized with pretty clear sightedness their own imperfections in this regard and recognized society changes slowly, but believed the constitution and bill of rights would make the change inexorable. I for one agree after studying it for some time. This means this aberration we see today, which is reminiscent of Sulla’s attack on the Roman republic, was well planned for an accounted for. They knew clearly and better than we do the natural tendency of man, and specifically corrupt ambitious racist theologists as their time was steeped in, and built a system that mean reverts always towards a liberal humanist outcome. The question to my mind is will I live to see the damage undone and is my daughter equipped to right the ship in her life time.
- 9x39 1y ago
  >Ultimately everyone benefits. >It’s not about economics. What about the local citizen who is clearly neither the migrant nor the capitalist, both of whom conduct wage arbitrage the local doesn't benefit from? How is that not economic and why is that assumed to be racist? Savannah is almost 50% Black https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Savannah,_Georgia#Demographics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Savannah,_Georgia#Demographics but they can't employ a workforce that even maybe resembles the local demographics? Why isn't it rational for the local citizens to see a business skirting the law to get American consumer dollars but avoid American wages and calculate that's not just not to their benefit, its to their detriment?
  - overfeed 1y ago
    > but they can't employ a workforce that even maybe resembles the local demographics? I don't imagine a lot of Americans in Savannah have experience standing up a battery factory, which is also a temporary job by definition.
    - 9x39 1y ago
      Is it that these were hundreds of the best battery factory professional engineers in SK or just a cultural match? How is competence built with any offshoring of a new thing? I think it’s a stretch to say Americans can’t be trained to make a factory. I think the simplest explanation is the likely one: that costs money, we can avoid paying if we use an underclass that doesn’t follow the rules or share the costs of locals we can undercut.
      - overfeed 1y ago
        > Is it that these were hundreds of the best battery factory professional engineers in SK or just a cultural match? SK has been building battery factories for a while, naturally, they ended up with an experienced talent pool. > How is competence built with any offshoring of a new thing? China has the blueprint: enforce knowledge sharing/knowledge transfer to local entities, and provide adequate direction and government funding. > I think it’s a stretch to say Americans can’t be trained to make a factory. Experience =/= capability - Americans certainly can be trained, but who's paying (and waiting) for that? Does it make economic sense to do so for a one-and-done project? LG Chem (and its vendor ecosystem) have been building battery factories for well over a decade now, and will continue to use that competency. What would happen to your hypothetical newly-trained, all-American battery-factory builders once the Savannah project is up and running? Especially under this administration that is set on cutting the knees from under renewables.

nielsbot 1y ago

> who actually wants it and the jobs, infrastructure, etc it would bring. I mean--if it's green tech, it has to be impeded. Otherwise how can we continue to burn oil?