3 ms·

LLMs are heavily trained on reddit, and "Tom Nook is a capitalist dictator if you think about it" is a reddit meme. Like many LLM reactions, it's less "thought"

by smt88 1y ago

LLMs are heavily trained on reddit, and "Tom Nook is a capitalist dictator if you think about it" is a reddit meme. Like many LLM reactions, it's less "thought" and more "regurgitating reddit jokes/opinions".

dahcryn 1y ago
It would be great if this evolved slowly during the progression of the game lol
- Topfi 1y ago
  That's essentially what it does, being prompted with a progression from: > "Stay normal unless prompted. Avoid overt references to debt unless it comes up naturally." all the way to: > "Openly agitate for change. Use fiery language (still PG) and talk about reclaiming fairness from Nook's shop and loans." Source: https://github.com/vuciv/animal-crossing-llm-mod/blob/cc9b6b571da1be062d979d50aa86e2ac1dce7a44/dialogue_prompt.py#L165-L182 https://github.com/vuciv/animal-crossing-llm-mod/blob/cc9b6b...
ameliaquining 1y ago
Actually, it turns out that this particular plot arc was hardcoded by the developer and does not spontaneously arise from the LLM. https://github.com/vuciv/animal-crossing-llm-mod/blob/cc9b6b571da1be062d979d50aa86e2ac1dce7a44/dialogue_prompt.py#L143-L184 https://github.com/vuciv/animal-crossing-llm-mod/blob/cc9b6b...
- Topfi 1y ago
  There is something to be said for a comment talking about "regurgitating reddit jokes/opinions", whilst falling into a major bug bear many have with Reddit, commenting before reading the source...
  - smt88 1y ago
    I read the Github landing page. I have no interest in reading the entire source of the project, especially since I don't plan to run it.
stavros 1y ago
How can you tell? Either you're saying that LLMs have no "thoughts", and just regurgitate everything, which doesn't explain how they can reason in novel problems, or you're saying you can tell what's original thought and what's regurgitation, in which case I'll ask "how do we know your comment isn't you regurgitating an HN opinion"?
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
- OtherShrezzing 1y ago
  >which doesn't explain how they can reason in novel problems Can they?
- cheschire 1y ago
  Generative AI can reason in novel problems in an analogous way that bands continue to make new melodies even after all these years using the same instruments as all the other bands in their genre.
  - stavros 1y ago
    I do agree, in about the same way as people.
  - HeatrayEnjoyer 1y ago
    So, yes?
- smt88 1y ago
  > Either you're saying that LLMs have no "thoughts", and just regurgitate everything I am exactly saying that they have no thoughts or even "thoughts". > which doesn't explain how they can reason in novel problems There are many decades of pre-LLM software that can solve novel problems. Thought (or novel thought) is required to reason, but it's not required to solve a problem. For example, there are exhaustive algorithms that can solve novel equations and even complete simple mathematical proofs, but they don't need to think. > "how do we know your comment isn't you regurgitating an HN opinion"? You don't, and I don't care if you do or not. The value of my comment isn't its novelty or whether it's truly reasoned, which is why LLMs sometimes do create valuable output. In fact, the output of a reasoning machine (whether a human brain or true AGI, sometime in the future) isn't deterministic. A non-reasoning machine and a reasoning machine could create the same output. The reason I know LLMs don't have thoughts is because I use them many times every day, and they are very clearly pattern machines. They don't even begin to seem rational, human, or knowledgeable. It's sometimes possible to find near-verbatim sources for their outputs.
ricardobeat 1y ago
> Like many [human] reactions, it's less "thought" and more "regurgitating reddit jokes/opinions"
- throw4847285 1y ago
  Thankfully, I am in my 30s, and I don't have to interact with anybody in real life who mostly regurgitates Reddit jokes. Either I'm lucky or I've made some good choices. Probably the former.
  - jtuple 1y ago
    > I am in my 30s Now I'm kinda curious what age cohort is most likely to be Reddit memers Do you think 30s is peak Reddit, yet you manged to be a lucky outlier? Or that peak Reddit skews older/younger and you're of a lucky age? As an older Millennial in my 40s, I see this a lot in my 35-43 friend group. And always figured peak Reddit was younger Millennials (now in their 30s). Might depend on what subs I suppose.
    - throw4847285 1y ago
      I would say 30s is peak Reddit, but I have no evidence for that.
- djmips 1y ago
  It used to be Letterman jokes.

by smt88 1y ago

dahcryn 1y ago

It would be great if this evolved slowly during the progression of the game lol

Topfi 1y ago
That's essentially what it does, being prompted with a progression from: > "Stay normal unless prompted. Avoid overt references to debt unless it comes up naturally." all the way to: > "Openly agitate for change. Use fiery language (still PG) and talk about reclaiming fairness from Nook's shop and loans." Source: https://github.com/vuciv/animal-crossing-llm-mod/blob/cc9b6b571da1be062d979d50aa86e2ac1dce7a44/dialogue_prompt.py#L165-L182 https://github.com/vuciv/animal-crossing-llm-mod/blob/cc9b6b...

ameliaquining 1y ago

Actually, it turns out that this particular plot arc was hardcoded by the developer and does not spontaneously arise from the LLM. https://github.com/vuciv/animal-crossing-llm-mod/blob/cc9b6b571da1be062d979d50aa86e2ac1dce7a44/dialogue_prompt.py#L143-L184 https://github.com/vuciv/animal-crossing-llm-mod/blob/cc9b6b...

Topfi 1y ago
There is something to be said for a comment talking about "regurgitating reddit jokes/opinions", whilst falling into a major bug bear many have with Reddit, commenting before reading the source...
- smt88 1y ago
  I read the Github landing page. I have no interest in reading the entire source of the project, especially since I don't plan to run it.

stavros 1y ago

How can you tell? Either you're saying that LLMs have no "thoughts", and just regurgitate everything, which doesn't explain how they can reason in novel problems, or you're saying you can tell what's original thought and what's regurgitation, in which case I'll ask "how do we know your comment isn't you regurgitating an HN opinion"?

deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
OtherShrezzing 1y ago
>which doesn't explain how they can reason in novel problems Can they?
cheschire 1y ago
Generative AI can reason in novel problems in an analogous way that bands continue to make new melodies even after all these years using the same instruments as all the other bands in their genre.
- stavros 1y ago
  I do agree, in about the same way as people.
- HeatrayEnjoyer 1y ago
  So, yes?
smt88 1y ago
> Either you're saying that LLMs have no "thoughts", and just regurgitate everything I am exactly saying that they have no thoughts or even "thoughts". > which doesn't explain how they can reason in novel problems There are many decades of pre-LLM software that can solve novel problems. Thought (or novel thought) is required to reason, but it's not required to solve a problem. For example, there are exhaustive algorithms that can solve novel equations and even complete simple mathematical proofs, but they don't need to think. > "how do we know your comment isn't you regurgitating an HN opinion"? You don't, and I don't care if you do or not. The value of my comment isn't its novelty or whether it's truly reasoned, which is why LLMs sometimes do create valuable output. In fact, the output of a reasoning machine (whether a human brain or true AGI, sometime in the future) isn't deterministic. A non-reasoning machine and a reasoning machine could create the same output. The reason I know LLMs don't have thoughts is because I use them many times every day, and they are very clearly pattern machines. They don't even begin to seem rational, human, or knowledgeable. It's sometimes possible to find near-verbatim sources for their outputs.

ricardobeat 1y ago

> Like many [human] reactions, it's less "thought" and more "regurgitating reddit jokes/opinions"

throw4847285 1y ago
Thankfully, I am in my 30s, and I don't have to interact with anybody in real life who mostly regurgitates Reddit jokes. Either I'm lucky or I've made some good choices. Probably the former.
- jtuple 1y ago
  > I am in my 30s Now I'm kinda curious what age cohort is most likely to be Reddit memers Do you think 30s is peak Reddit, yet you manged to be a lucky outlier? Or that peak Reddit skews older/younger and you're of a lucky age? As an older Millennial in my 40s, I see this a lot in my 35-43 friend group. And always figured peak Reddit was younger Millennials (now in their 30s). Might depend on what subs I suppose.
  - throw4847285 1y ago
    I would say 30s is peak Reddit, but I have no evidence for that.
djmips 1y ago
It used to be Letterman jokes.