5 ms·

Am I wrong for suspecting that the policy that colors the current Administration’s tyranny has its roots in those prior (Bush II, Obama)? Were we not warned of

Am I wrong for suspecting that the policy that colors the current Administration’s tyranny has its roots in those prior (Bush II, Obama)? Were we not warned of the possible consequences when less sensational or consenting news broke back then?

bloomingeek 1y ago
Absolutely, we were warned. No one heeded and then came the destruction of the Republican party by the likes of Rush, Newt and Rove who convinced the voting public everyone is evil who doesn't agree with them. Centrist and left leaning voters hoped it would just run it's course and go away, then evangelicals signed up with the Republicans and here we are.
- tolerance 1y ago
  Right, I’ve heard this story before. But what are we attributing to whom we’d otherwise label incompetent or malicious from among the center and left, from among the electorate and the elected? Or, what absolves them from not being held accountable for not taking heed to these warnings, being passive?
  - Terr_ 1y ago
    They aren't absolved, but it's pretty normal to put more blame and attention on willful criminals as opposed to neglectful bystanders.
  - anecdatas 1y ago
    The left was a Cassandra the whole time -- it's been nothing but warnings from the left. The Democrats (note: the Dems are not a left party) refused to listen, assuring everyone it was fine, that we just needed to return to norms and decorum. If we just elected the most proper guy, if we just went a little more rightwards in our policies, all this would be fine. Meanwhile, the left out there pointing at Obama's extrajudicial killings, Bush's whole post 9/11 fiasco, Clinton's "Superpredators" nonsense, etc. etc. and making tons of noise about how this was all going to end. Turns out, the left was right, the Dems were wrong. But the Dems are still fighting to try and shut down the left. Look at how hard the Dem establishment hates Mamdani.
    - tolerance 1y ago
      My line of questioning could be interpreted as a conflation of the left ("the electorate") with Democrats ("the elected"). Thanks for pointing out that distinction. I think it offers some directive as far as accountability can be considered. I’m curious to see where the Mamdani Experiment takes you all. His constituents are one group who are for certain no stranger to the armed presence reported elsewhere today. Under pretenses all too familiar.
      - ThrowMeAway1618 1y ago
        >I’m curious to see where the Mamdani Experiment takes you all. His constituents are one group who are for certain no stranger to the armed presence reported elsewhere today. Under pretenses all too familiar. What are you going on about? Mamdani may or may not be a good mayor for NYC. Ask me in two years. But he's not some sort of jihadi, Commie pinko. He's a New Yorker who is actually talking about issues that New Yorkers care about. It certainly helps that his competition are a disgraced serial sexual harasser (Cuomo), a corrupt sitting mayor whose administration (as well as himself) is riddled with corruption and a lack of accountability (Adams) and a clownish jerk whose claim to fame is that he used to ride the subways at night with his gang and beat up whoever they felt like (Sliwa). Given the competition. is it any wonder that Mamdani is a cinch to win the mayoralty? And all that has absolutely zero to do with the mud being slung at him. He will be the next mayor of NYC and I look forward to his tenure -- especially since it means the other folks will go away, at least for a few years. Mamdani may suck at being mayor. I don't know. But it would be difficult for him to be worse than his field of opponents. And none of that stuff has anything to do with national politics or the DNC. I say all this as an old white guy of Jewish extraction. I don't know where you're from or where you live, but you're talking out of your ass and it smells that way too. Yuck! Edit: I may have, as anecdata (thanks for calling me out, anecdata!) suggested (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45193191 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45193191 ), misunderstood your post. Upon reflection, I probably should have been more charitable in my reading of it. That said, you're flat wrong about Mamdani's "constituents." He, for the reasons I mentioned above, is supported not just by the minorities being targeted by the Trump administration, but by huge numbers of regular New Yorkers (of all ethnicities and melanin content levels), because he's the best candidate. I'd add that Mamdani didn't just fly in from an Iranian terrorist training camp to run for mayor. He grew up in NYC, went to NYC public schools and has been an elected member of the New York State Assembly for the past four years. If I misunderstood your comment as to Mamdani, his constituents (the residents of State Assembly District 36 in Queens), and/or his validity/viability as a mayoral candidate, my apologies.
- EasyMark 1y ago
  they've lost all sense of nuance. Everyone is evil if they don't have an R beside their name. It's all about shutting off the brain and trusting the process (of indoctrination)
AnishLaddha 1y ago
since reagan, actually: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unitary_executive_theory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unitary_executive_theory John Yoo is probably the most influential lawyer of the 21st century.
kristopolous 1y ago
I was certainly talking about exactly this. Trust me, people thought you were some wild crazy freak. See here's how it works, watch: There's going to be concentration camps. The volume of deportation required demands it. There always needs to be two sides agreeing in a deportation, the sending and the receiving. If there's a bottleneck at the receiving or an incompetence in the sending then you warehouse. It's inherent to any logistics. No that feeling you have that I'm crazy, that's what I'm talking about. Anyways... See you in a year or so and I'll link back to this.
- stuartjohnson12 1y ago
  I normally try to avoid commenting on politics because this account is tied to my identity and therefore my profession and it's generally not advisable to tie those things together. So it is with no degree of lightness that I say that I agree and this concerns me gravely.
  - potato3732842 1y ago
    The time to be concerned was 10-15yr ago when these tactics were being normalized (if you take issue with the means) and the policies that teed up the current immigration showdown were being figured out (if you take issue with the end).
    - boston_clone 1y ago
      To paraphrase planting trees for shade, the second best time to be concerned is right now.
- h4ck_th3_pl4n3t 1y ago
  The solution to the warehouse cost problem is pretty easy, you just need to burn them because ashes are more compact, ergo less transportation costs. You just don't want to realize that this has nothing to do with ethics anymore. It's about control and money.
- tolerance 1y ago
cheald 1y ago
The use of Stingrays to conduct mass surveillance dates back decades, yes.
potato3732842 1y ago
>Were we not warned of the possible consequences when less sensational or consenting news broke back then? People were screeching about this stuff then but they were brushed off by as "conspiracy weirdos" or "yeah they're probably doing it but who cares because it'd be unconstitutional" or "they won't use it on petty criminals" depending upon the exact year and political context you brought it up in.
EasyMark 1y ago
the president's power has expanded far too much over the past 30 years. The supreme court and congress are really failing at their jobs.
- efreak 1y ago
  Closer to 100 years iirc. Didn't presidential power start expanding in the 30s?
  - EasyMark 1y ago
    That's true, FDR kind of had a step function there on Presidential power
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]

bloomingeek 1y ago

Absolutely, we were warned. No one heeded and then came the destruction of the Republican party by the likes of Rush, Newt and Rove who convinced the voting public everyone is evil who doesn't agree with them. Centrist and left leaning voters hoped it would just run it's course and go away, then evangelicals signed up with the Republicans and here we are.

tolerance 1y ago
Right, I’ve heard this story before. But what are we attributing to whom we’d otherwise label incompetent or malicious from among the center and left, from among the electorate and the elected? Or, what absolves them from not being held accountable for not taking heed to these warnings, being passive?
- Terr_ 1y ago
  They aren't absolved, but it's pretty normal to put more blame and attention on willful criminals as opposed to neglectful bystanders.
- anecdatas 1y ago
  The left was a Cassandra the whole time -- it's been nothing but warnings from the left. The Democrats (note: the Dems are not a left party) refused to listen, assuring everyone it was fine, that we just needed to return to norms and decorum. If we just elected the most proper guy, if we just went a little more rightwards in our policies, all this would be fine. Meanwhile, the left out there pointing at Obama's extrajudicial killings, Bush's whole post 9/11 fiasco, Clinton's "Superpredators" nonsense, etc. etc. and making tons of noise about how this was all going to end. Turns out, the left was right, the Dems were wrong. But the Dems are still fighting to try and shut down the left. Look at how hard the Dem establishment hates Mamdani.
  - tolerance 1y ago
    My line of questioning could be interpreted as a conflation of the left ("the electorate") with Democrats ("the elected"). Thanks for pointing out that distinction. I think it offers some directive as far as accountability can be considered. I’m curious to see where the Mamdani Experiment takes you all. His constituents are one group who are for certain no stranger to the armed presence reported elsewhere today. Under pretenses all too familiar.
    - ThrowMeAway1618 1y ago
      >I’m curious to see where the Mamdani Experiment takes you all. His constituents are one group who are for certain no stranger to the armed presence reported elsewhere today. Under pretenses all too familiar. What are you going on about? Mamdani may or may not be a good mayor for NYC. Ask me in two years. But he's not some sort of jihadi, Commie pinko. He's a New Yorker who is actually talking about issues that New Yorkers care about. It certainly helps that his competition are a disgraced serial sexual harasser (Cuomo), a corrupt sitting mayor whose administration (as well as himself) is riddled with corruption and a lack of accountability (Adams) and a clownish jerk whose claim to fame is that he used to ride the subways at night with his gang and beat up whoever they felt like (Sliwa). Given the competition. is it any wonder that Mamdani is a cinch to win the mayoralty? And all that has absolutely zero to do with the mud being slung at him. He will be the next mayor of NYC and I look forward to his tenure -- especially since it means the other folks will go away, at least for a few years. Mamdani may suck at being mayor. I don't know. But it would be difficult for him to be worse than his field of opponents. And none of that stuff has anything to do with national politics or the DNC. I say all this as an old white guy of Jewish extraction. I don't know where you're from or where you live, but you're talking out of your ass and it smells that way too. Yuck! Edit: I may have, as anecdata (thanks for calling me out, anecdata!) suggested (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45193191 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45193191 ), misunderstood your post. Upon reflection, I probably should have been more charitable in my reading of it. That said, you're flat wrong about Mamdani's "constituents." He, for the reasons I mentioned above, is supported not just by the minorities being targeted by the Trump administration, but by huge numbers of regular New Yorkers (of all ethnicities and melanin content levels), because he's the best candidate. I'd add that Mamdani didn't just fly in from an Iranian terrorist training camp to run for mayor. He grew up in NYC, went to NYC public schools and has been an elected member of the New York State Assembly for the past four years. If I misunderstood your comment as to Mamdani, his constituents (the residents of State Assembly District 36 in Queens), and/or his validity/viability as a mayoral candidate, my apologies.
EasyMark 1y ago
they've lost all sense of nuance. Everyone is evil if they don't have an R beside their name. It's all about shutting off the brain and trusting the process (of indoctrination)

AnishLaddha 1y ago

since reagan, actually: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unitary_executive_theory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unitary_executive_theory John Yoo is probably the most influential lawyer of the 21st century.

kristopolous 1y ago

I was certainly talking about exactly this. Trust me, people thought you were some wild crazy freak. See here's how it works, watch: There's going to be concentration camps. The volume of deportation required demands it. There always needs to be two sides agreeing in a deportation, the sending and the receiving. If there's a bottleneck at the receiving or an incompetence in the sending then you warehouse. It's inherent to any logistics. No that feeling you have that I'm crazy, that's what I'm talking about. Anyways... See you in a year or so and I'll link back to this.

stuartjohnson12 1y ago
I normally try to avoid commenting on politics because this account is tied to my identity and therefore my profession and it's generally not advisable to tie those things together. So it is with no degree of lightness that I say that I agree and this concerns me gravely.
- potato3732842 1y ago
  The time to be concerned was 10-15yr ago when these tactics were being normalized (if you take issue with the means) and the policies that teed up the current immigration showdown were being figured out (if you take issue with the end).
  - boston_clone 1y ago
    To paraphrase planting trees for shade, the second best time to be concerned is right now.
h4ck_th3_pl4n3t 1y ago
The solution to the warehouse cost problem is pretty easy, you just need to burn them because ashes are more compact, ergo less transportation costs. You just don't want to realize that this has nothing to do with ethics anymore. It's about control and money.
tolerance 1y ago

cheald 1y ago

The use of Stingrays to conduct mass surveillance dates back decades, yes.

potato3732842 1y ago

>Were we not warned of the possible consequences when less sensational or consenting news broke back then? People were screeching about this stuff then but they were brushed off by as "conspiracy weirdos" or "yeah they're probably doing it but who cares because it'd be unconstitutional" or "they won't use it on petty criminals" depending upon the exact year and political context you brought it up in.

EasyMark 1y ago

the president's power has expanded far too much over the past 30 years. The supreme court and congress are really failing at their jobs.

efreak 1y ago
Closer to 100 years iirc. Didn't presidential power start expanding in the 30s?
- EasyMark 1y ago
  That's true, FDR kind of had a step function there on Presidential power

deleted 1y ago

[deleted]