4 ms·

Reading the article it looks like the workers in question were here legally with visas and they were getting the plant online to train US workers. Isn't this ex

Reading the article it looks like the workers in question were here legally with visas and they were getting the plant online to train US workers. Isn't this exactly what was asked for? WTF is this administration doing literally putting these people in chains?

scotty79 1y ago
Also the deal they get is to leave the country now and be banned for extended period or stay in detention (a prison basically) and await a hearing that will happen no sooner than in months. They have few days to decide which option they choose.
lupusreal 1y ago
[flagged]
- ActorNightly 1y ago
  Lets say that was true On one hand, you could work with Hyundai to address the issue, let the plant be built, knowing that eventually the plant is going to brig a lot more jobs for Americans, and bring economic activity to the area. On the other hand, you could make this a political spectacle, cause Hyundai to abandon the plant, further destroying relations, and now no jobs are going to come as a result of this as they abandon construction. Makes perfect sense.
  - some_guy_nobel 1y ago
    The world isn't black and white, but your scenario makes no sense regardless. - If Hyundai is using illegal labor to build the plant, what would stop them from operating the plant with labor from the same illegal pool? The motivation for labor selection here is not type-of-work, it's cost. - If Hyundai is allowed to employ illegal immigrants in that way, what precedent does that set for other similar plants? - Of course tradesmen are going to advocate for their trade. They don't care about some second-order effects on employment that doesn't effect them. (I'll save you some typing, they don't care about the imaginary third-order externalities that plant workers will use their services later, either). I think what the administration did is stupid as hell, but if those are truly jobs meant to go to Americans, why shouldn't locals be upset?
    - nashashmi 1y ago
      There was a situation where specialized artisan skilled workers were brought in from India on the respective visa and were given housing and food in exchanging for working on a BAPS temple. The workers were paid nothing (like $1/hour). This was abuse. But the workers were not at fault. The temple builder was. And the workers were rescued from the abusive environment. Later the temple claimed that the workers were "volunteers" so they got away with it.
    - ActorNightly 1y ago
      >what would stop them from operating the plant with labor from the same illegal pool? The agreement that if they are allowed to continue, they would pay fines, or agree to hire x amount of American workforce or contribute in other ways monetarily. A.k.a actual negotiation where everyone wins. > If Hyundai is allowed to employ illegal immigrants in that way, what precedent does that set for other similar plants? Come to America, build plants however you want, hire American workers, everyone wins. >why shouldn't locals be upset? They can be upset all they want. Just don't be surprised when economy keeps on tanking and then finding out that Trump administration DGAF about you, just like the soybean farmers that all voted MAGA who are getting royally screwed by the trade war
      - some_guy_nobel 1y ago
        > They can be upset all they want. Just don't be surprised when economy keeps on tanking and then finding out that Trump administration DGAF about you, just like the soybean farmers that all voted MAGA who are getting royally screwed by the trade war I agree with that. How people can believe anything from a man who sells Bibles branded with his name is beyond me, never mind everything else.
  - lupusreal 1y ago
    On one hand, maybe the labor unions are making up bullshit to score political points for republicans. On the other hand, maybe the massive corporation is flaunting labor laws. Hmmmm! Quite a mystery!
- cosmic_cheese 1y ago
  Not to justify it, but if the gulf in productivity between imported vs. domestic workers is as wide here as TSMC observed when building their Arizona plant, well, there’s your motivation. Every day that plant isn’t online comes at a steep cost.
  - aerostable_slug 1y ago
    Pouring concrete is not something where you justifiably need imported high-skilled workers.
- empath75 1y ago
  You can't just look at every action the administration is taking on this in isolation. This is part of a larger program of demonizing and abusing immigrants in this country. I don't think they deserve the benefit of the doubt. In any case, there are ways to handle this that are less abusive of people who were just trying to do their jobs. This honestly could have been handled with an email. "We have been notified that some of your employees have been doing work A, B and C in violation of their visa agreements. Please take action to correct this before we have to take legal action, which could involve arrest and deportation and fines." That is the way this would have been handled in the past, and would have resolved the problem, but they were more interested in putting on a show. When enforcing the law, there are broad spectrum of actions available between doing nothing at all and launching a drone strike, and this administration seems to want to do the latter more often than not.
  - lupusreal 1y ago
    Judging things on a case by case basis is exactly how you should be operating, otherwise you'll only see what you already expect to see. I think the Trump administration are disastrous for this country and for our foreign policy, but that does not mean that literally anything the federal government does during these years is wrong.
Simulacra 1y ago
From the article: "While neither government has revealed details about all the workers’ visas,"
- marcosdumay 1y ago
  The only way to interpret this is that there's nothing at all wrong with the workers' visas. If there were any tiny detail wrong, it would be revealed.

scotty79 1y ago

Also the deal they get is to leave the country now and be banned for extended period or stay in detention (a prison basically) and await a hearing that will happen no sooner than in months. They have few days to decide which option they choose.

lupusreal 1y ago

[flagged]

ActorNightly 1y ago
Lets say that was true On one hand, you could work with Hyundai to address the issue, let the plant be built, knowing that eventually the plant is going to brig a lot more jobs for Americans, and bring economic activity to the area. On the other hand, you could make this a political spectacle, cause Hyundai to abandon the plant, further destroying relations, and now no jobs are going to come as a result of this as they abandon construction. Makes perfect sense.
- some_guy_nobel 1y ago
  The world isn't black and white, but your scenario makes no sense regardless. - If Hyundai is using illegal labor to build the plant, what would stop them from operating the plant with labor from the same illegal pool? The motivation for labor selection here is not type-of-work, it's cost. - If Hyundai is allowed to employ illegal immigrants in that way, what precedent does that set for other similar plants? - Of course tradesmen are going to advocate for their trade. They don't care about some second-order effects on employment that doesn't effect them. (I'll save you some typing, they don't care about the imaginary third-order externalities that plant workers will use their services later, either). I think what the administration did is stupid as hell, but if those are truly jobs meant to go to Americans, why shouldn't locals be upset?
  - nashashmi 1y ago
    There was a situation where specialized artisan skilled workers were brought in from India on the respective visa and were given housing and food in exchanging for working on a BAPS temple. The workers were paid nothing (like $1/hour). This was abuse. But the workers were not at fault. The temple builder was. And the workers were rescued from the abusive environment. Later the temple claimed that the workers were "volunteers" so they got away with it.
  - ActorNightly 1y ago
    >what would stop them from operating the plant with labor from the same illegal pool? The agreement that if they are allowed to continue, they would pay fines, or agree to hire x amount of American workforce or contribute in other ways monetarily. A.k.a actual negotiation where everyone wins. > If Hyundai is allowed to employ illegal immigrants in that way, what precedent does that set for other similar plants? Come to America, build plants however you want, hire American workers, everyone wins. >why shouldn't locals be upset? They can be upset all they want. Just don't be surprised when economy keeps on tanking and then finding out that Trump administration DGAF about you, just like the soybean farmers that all voted MAGA who are getting royally screwed by the trade war
    - some_guy_nobel 1y ago
      > They can be upset all they want. Just don't be surprised when economy keeps on tanking and then finding out that Trump administration DGAF about you, just like the soybean farmers that all voted MAGA who are getting royally screwed by the trade war I agree with that. How people can believe anything from a man who sells Bibles branded with his name is beyond me, never mind everything else.
- lupusreal 1y ago
  On one hand, maybe the labor unions are making up bullshit to score political points for republicans. On the other hand, maybe the massive corporation is flaunting labor laws. Hmmmm! Quite a mystery!
cosmic_cheese 1y ago
Not to justify it, but if the gulf in productivity between imported vs. domestic workers is as wide here as TSMC observed when building their Arizona plant, well, there’s your motivation. Every day that plant isn’t online comes at a steep cost.
- aerostable_slug 1y ago
  Pouring concrete is not something where you justifiably need imported high-skilled workers.
empath75 1y ago
You can't just look at every action the administration is taking on this in isolation. This is part of a larger program of demonizing and abusing immigrants in this country. I don't think they deserve the benefit of the doubt. In any case, there are ways to handle this that are less abusive of people who were just trying to do their jobs. This honestly could have been handled with an email. "We have been notified that some of your employees have been doing work A, B and C in violation of their visa agreements. Please take action to correct this before we have to take legal action, which could involve arrest and deportation and fines." That is the way this would have been handled in the past, and would have resolved the problem, but they were more interested in putting on a show. When enforcing the law, there are broad spectrum of actions available between doing nothing at all and launching a drone strike, and this administration seems to want to do the latter more often than not.
- lupusreal 1y ago
  Judging things on a case by case basis is exactly how you should be operating, otherwise you'll only see what you already expect to see. I think the Trump administration are disastrous for this country and for our foreign policy, but that does not mean that literally anything the federal government does during these years is wrong.

Simulacra 1y ago

From the article: "While neither government has revealed details about all the workers’ visas,"

marcosdumay 1y ago
The only way to interpret this is that there's nothing at all wrong with the workers' visas. If there were any tiny detail wrong, it would be revealed.