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Anonymity is not a prerequisite to freedom of speech. Broken lives of people harassed by anonymous trolls on social media are the dark side of anonymity. Free

Anonymity is not a prerequisite to freedom of speech. Broken lives of people harassed by anonymous trolls on social media are the dark side of anonymity. Freedom must be accompanied by responsibility and accountability.

isaacremuant 1y ago
> Anonymity is not a prerequisite to freedom of speech. That's disingenous bullshit. From the likes of people who use their power imbalance to pretend their propaganda is truth and dissent is dangerous. "Freedom of speech is ok but what you're doing is different" is the first step > Broken lives of people harassed by anonymous trolls on social media are the dark side of anonymity. You only need to pay attention to history to see what political totalitarianism means when there's no anonymity. It's way worse than online trolls. > Freedom must be accompanied by responsibility and accountability. Said the dictator, who was accountable to no one. Those who hold the power shield themselves from accountability and want to use it as an excuse to prevent dissent.
- mkleczek 1y ago
  Democracy for quite some time thrived in US (and for some shorter time in other western countries) even though there was no anonymity while free speech was guaranteed by the state. In other words: anonymity is not a solution for lack of free speech. I should be free to say whatever I want without being forced to hide behind a nickname. Secondly: I think you are happy to not being the target of online violence. I have experience with teens on the brink of suicide caused by it.
  - isaacremuant 1y ago
    I have experience of people disappeared because of totalitarianism. Your teens on the brink of self harm are peanuts compared to state murder. Try some other shitty propaganda.
    - ycombigators 1y ago
      Let me guess, it was Alex Jones. Did he fall out of a window?
      - cindyllm 1y ago
        [dead]
      - isaacremuant 1y ago
        Ah. This is it, folks. You're a liar and you project your lies. Incapable of realising how people have lived shit in history. Go google "disappeared people in military dictatorships" and maybe, just maybe, you'll learn something about authoritians and how they dealt with "subversives". Not everyone here lives in the US. Your account is 17 hours old and you want to find the "enemy within". Aren't you the enemy within? Demosntate you're not a foreign actor, according to your own rules, post your full name and address. Or maybe that's a stupid thing to do and anonymity is valuable?
        ycombigators 1y ago
        Very ironic. I actually am a foreign actor (effectively like your own president). I'm British. Jones is a rabble rouser, as is most of the "right" in the US. You'd do well to learn how to spot them, and like your president, he's only interested with stuffing his pockets with money. Enjoy your fascism - comes with a free side of disappearing people. I'm sure you'll be Pinchoeted in no time at all based on your narrative once it's all locked in.
seneca 1y ago
> Anonymity is not a prerequisite to freedom of speech. I couldn't disagree more. The vast majority of papers the founders of the US published to argue against tyrannical government were written anonymously. > Broken lives of people harassed by anonymous trolls on social media are the dark side of anonymity. This is a cliche "think of the children" argument. Stripping away anonymity is a gargantuan problem, and enables authoritarian regimes to punish dissent. Trolls are a very minor problem comparatively. > Freedom must be accompanied by responsibility and accountability. This is essentially saying "freedom needs to come with punishments and restrictions when you do things I don't like". It's an oxymoron. The responsibilities a free populace have are moral and civil, they aren't about giving away anonymity to governments.
- mkleczek 1y ago
  > This is a cliche "think of the children" argument. Stripping away anonymity is a gargantuan problem, and enables authoritarian regimes to punish dissent. So we agree: authoritarian regimes are a gargantuan problem, not stripping away anonymity. > Trolls are a very minor problem comparatively. Online predator almost killed my child - this is not a "very minor problem". At least not for me. > This is essentially saying "freedom needs to come with punishments and restrictions when you do things I don't like". It's an oxymoron. It is not bout things _I_ don't like but things that _we (society)_ don't like. In my country nazi symbols are forbidden in public space and I think it is a good thing. So yes - "freedom needs to come with punishments and restrictions". > The responsibilities a free populace have are moral and civil, they aren't about giving away anonymity to governments. Why not? There are countries which governments are elected by citizens and are _trusted_ by citizens. Why would I want to be anonymous if I _trust_ people I elected?
  - isaacremuant 1y ago
    Almost killed your one child. Authoritarian governments have murdered many more. At some point the disingenous concerned parents need to start dealing with their own parenting instead of pretending we need to live in 1984 just because your bad parenting requires it. Your way has many more deaths of government dissenters. Stop using "death" as a scare tactic. Much like the "war on terror" supporters, it's a fraud.

isaacremuant 1y ago

> Anonymity is not a prerequisite to freedom of speech. That's disingenous bullshit. From the likes of people who use their power imbalance to pretend their propaganda is truth and dissent is dangerous. "Freedom of speech is ok but what you're doing is different" is the first step > Broken lives of people harassed by anonymous trolls on social media are the dark side of anonymity. You only need to pay attention to history to see what political totalitarianism means when there's no anonymity. It's way worse than online trolls. > Freedom must be accompanied by responsibility and accountability. Said the dictator, who was accountable to no one. Those who hold the power shield themselves from accountability and want to use it as an excuse to prevent dissent.

mkleczek 1y ago
Democracy for quite some time thrived in US (and for some shorter time in other western countries) even though there was no anonymity while free speech was guaranteed by the state. In other words: anonymity is not a solution for lack of free speech. I should be free to say whatever I want without being forced to hide behind a nickname. Secondly: I think you are happy to not being the target of online violence. I have experience with teens on the brink of suicide caused by it.
- isaacremuant 1y ago
  I have experience of people disappeared because of totalitarianism. Your teens on the brink of self harm are peanuts compared to state murder. Try some other shitty propaganda.
  - ycombigators 1y ago
    Let me guess, it was Alex Jones. Did he fall out of a window?
    - cindyllm 1y ago
      [dead]
    - isaacremuant 1y ago
      Ah. This is it, folks. You're a liar and you project your lies. Incapable of realising how people have lived shit in history. Go google "disappeared people in military dictatorships" and maybe, just maybe, you'll learn something about authoritians and how they dealt with "subversives". Not everyone here lives in the US. Your account is 17 hours old and you want to find the "enemy within". Aren't you the enemy within? Demosntate you're not a foreign actor, according to your own rules, post your full name and address. Or maybe that's a stupid thing to do and anonymity is valuable?
      - ycombigators 1y ago
        Very ironic. I actually am a foreign actor (effectively like your own president). I'm British. Jones is a rabble rouser, as is most of the "right" in the US. You'd do well to learn how to spot them, and like your president, he's only interested with stuffing his pockets with money. Enjoy your fascism - comes with a free side of disappearing people. I'm sure you'll be Pinchoeted in no time at all based on your narrative once it's all locked in.

seneca 1y ago

> Anonymity is not a prerequisite to freedom of speech. I couldn't disagree more. The vast majority of papers the founders of the US published to argue against tyrannical government were written anonymously. > Broken lives of people harassed by anonymous trolls on social media are the dark side of anonymity. This is a cliche "think of the children" argument. Stripping away anonymity is a gargantuan problem, and enables authoritarian regimes to punish dissent. Trolls are a very minor problem comparatively. > Freedom must be accompanied by responsibility and accountability. This is essentially saying "freedom needs to come with punishments and restrictions when you do things I don't like". It's an oxymoron. The responsibilities a free populace have are moral and civil, they aren't about giving away anonymity to governments.

mkleczek 1y ago
> This is a cliche "think of the children" argument. Stripping away anonymity is a gargantuan problem, and enables authoritarian regimes to punish dissent. So we agree: authoritarian regimes are a gargantuan problem, not stripping away anonymity. > Trolls are a very minor problem comparatively. Online predator almost killed my child - this is not a "very minor problem". At least not for me. > This is essentially saying "freedom needs to come with punishments and restrictions when you do things I don't like". It's an oxymoron. It is not bout things _I_ don't like but things that _we (society)_ don't like. In my country nazi symbols are forbidden in public space and I think it is a good thing. So yes - "freedom needs to come with punishments and restrictions". > The responsibilities a free populace have are moral and civil, they aren't about giving away anonymity to governments. Why not? There are countries which governments are elected by citizens and are _trusted_ by citizens. Why would I want to be anonymous if I _trust_ people I elected?
- isaacremuant 1y ago
  Almost killed your one child. Authoritarian governments have murdered many more. At some point the disingenous concerned parents need to start dealing with their own parenting instead of pretending we need to live in 1984 just because your bad parenting requires it. Your way has many more deaths of government dissenters. Stop using "death" as a scare tactic. Much like the "war on terror" supporters, it's a fraud.