4 ms·

The one detail I can't seem to find anywhere was what type of visa these SK nationals used to enter the US, and if they overstayed. This isn't exactly new terr

The one detail I can't seem to find anywhere was what type of visa these SK nationals used to enter the US, and if they overstayed. This isn't exactly new territory. A lot of countries are very careful to avoid letting you in on a tourist visa if you give off the appearance of entering to work.

ajross 1y ago
> The one detail I can't seem to find anywhere was what type of visa these SK nationals used to enter the US, and if they overstayed. Because there is no visa process for short term professional work in the US, and never has been. > A lot of countries are very careful to avoid letting you in on a tourist visa if you give off the appearance of entering to work. That's just wrong. Virtually the entirety of the professional world travels around between industrial countries on tourist visas. Otherwise anyone going to a trade show is an "illegal" at risk of deportation.
- detaro 1y ago
  There's work and work. Most "tourist" visa will cover things like attending conferences or tradeshows, meetings with a different branch of your employer or customers etc, but on the other side more dedicated work, conference talks you are compensated for, ... can quickly be treated differently. And if you don't come from a preferred part of the world even the former can quickly be quite a process to prove it.
  - ghaff 1y ago
    Exactly. Being nervous, of a "suspicious" ethnicity, giving any indication that you're being paid for being in the country, can probably all lead to issues. As I wrote elsewhere, aside from some countries that require a visa for any explicit business activity, a basic visa is typically fine to go to a conference or meet with a customer, much less send some emails.
- ehnto 1y ago
  That is my impression of travelling to the US right now. Non zero risk of baseless detainment and deportation, and a non zero risk of being sent to a different country than the one you live in. No thanks. I'll stream the conference online.
ghaff 1y ago
As a tech person, I've never had trouble entering Europe from the US to go to a conference or whatever but I'd be very careful with respect to honorariums or expenses being covered for speaking, etc., which I have heard of people getting in trouble over. (Of course, some countries do have explicit requirements for business-related visits.)
- dmix 1y ago
  Every country is careful with rules like that. The main difference is the US has been the #1 destination for almost everyone in the world to work/live for decades, so it's a major supply/demand issue that border guards have to deal with. People often compare it to European countries. Random countries that are people's 15th choice to immigrate, where they don't need to try as hard with enforcement. Or at least didn't until recently, since Europe also began experiencing American-southern border style immigration issues.
fsckboy 1y ago
some had no visas, some had tourist visas, some had expired visas
- firesteelrain 1y ago
  Well this extra context makes what ICE did totally understandable. I would expect any country to do the same.
  - VBprogrammer 1y ago
    The crackdown is certainly being done for the wrong reasons but it does seem strange to me just how much of the US is built around the idea of a second class of citizens who don't have documentation. It seems like a significant portion of farmworkers, construction, hospitality and childcare are routinely done by people who aren't legally in the country. I'm sure there is more of this than in Europe than I'm aware of (food delivery is one example we're recently had a lot of focus on in the UK) but it's certainly not at the point that it's routine and expected. How does this work? Are these people somehow paying taxes regardless of their immigration status?
    - firesteelrain 1y ago
      Your questions are valid however diverges from the main point. The South Korean citizens in question were breaking the law. Whether we agree on ICE’s approach and how that reflects on optics is more of a political question for this administration. Clearly, the South Korean citizens were not following established US Visa Law and Policy.
      - ajross 1y ago
        That is simply not true. Automatic/assumed visa waivers has been the way international professionals do temporary work in the US for many decades. Yes, the state department and DHS after it have always had the ability to revoke this waiver when abused. But there is simply no abuse alleged here. They showed up to build a factory, made no attempt to hide that fact, and that's exactly what they were "caught" doing. This "Yooz Brok Duh Lah" absolutism is a transparently political excuse for what is very obviously a norm-breaking and unjust enforcement of a law that was working very well.
BurningFrog 1y ago
South Koreans, like most developed countries, get an automatic 90 day B-1 "visa waiver" visa when entering.

ajross 1y ago

> The one detail I can't seem to find anywhere was what type of visa these SK nationals used to enter the US, and if they overstayed. Because there is no visa process for short term professional work in the US, and never has been. > A lot of countries are very careful to avoid letting you in on a tourist visa if you give off the appearance of entering to work. That's just wrong. Virtually the entirety of the professional world travels around between industrial countries on tourist visas. Otherwise anyone going to a trade show is an "illegal" at risk of deportation.

detaro 1y ago
There's work and work. Most "tourist" visa will cover things like attending conferences or tradeshows, meetings with a different branch of your employer or customers etc, but on the other side more dedicated work, conference talks you are compensated for, ... can quickly be treated differently. And if you don't come from a preferred part of the world even the former can quickly be quite a process to prove it.
- ghaff 1y ago
  Exactly. Being nervous, of a "suspicious" ethnicity, giving any indication that you're being paid for being in the country, can probably all lead to issues. As I wrote elsewhere, aside from some countries that require a visa for any explicit business activity, a basic visa is typically fine to go to a conference or meet with a customer, much less send some emails.
ehnto 1y ago
That is my impression of travelling to the US right now. Non zero risk of baseless detainment and deportation, and a non zero risk of being sent to a different country than the one you live in. No thanks. I'll stream the conference online.

ghaff 1y ago

As a tech person, I've never had trouble entering Europe from the US to go to a conference or whatever but I'd be very careful with respect to honorariums or expenses being covered for speaking, etc., which I have heard of people getting in trouble over. (Of course, some countries do have explicit requirements for business-related visits.)

dmix 1y ago
Every country is careful with rules like that. The main difference is the US has been the #1 destination for almost everyone in the world to work/live for decades, so it's a major supply/demand issue that border guards have to deal with. People often compare it to European countries. Random countries that are people's 15th choice to immigrate, where they don't need to try as hard with enforcement. Or at least didn't until recently, since Europe also began experiencing American-southern border style immigration issues.

fsckboy 1y ago

some had no visas, some had tourist visas, some had expired visas

firesteelrain 1y ago
Well this extra context makes what ICE did totally understandable. I would expect any country to do the same.
- VBprogrammer 1y ago
  The crackdown is certainly being done for the wrong reasons but it does seem strange to me just how much of the US is built around the idea of a second class of citizens who don't have documentation. It seems like a significant portion of farmworkers, construction, hospitality and childcare are routinely done by people who aren't legally in the country. I'm sure there is more of this than in Europe than I'm aware of (food delivery is one example we're recently had a lot of focus on in the UK) but it's certainly not at the point that it's routine and expected. How does this work? Are these people somehow paying taxes regardless of their immigration status?
  - firesteelrain 1y ago
    Your questions are valid however diverges from the main point. The South Korean citizens in question were breaking the law. Whether we agree on ICE’s approach and how that reflects on optics is more of a political question for this administration. Clearly, the South Korean citizens were not following established US Visa Law and Policy.
    - ajross 1y ago
      That is simply not true. Automatic/assumed visa waivers has been the way international professionals do temporary work in the US for many decades. Yes, the state department and DHS after it have always had the ability to revoke this waiver when abused. But there is simply no abuse alleged here. They showed up to build a factory, made no attempt to hide that fact, and that's exactly what they were "caught" doing. This "Yooz Brok Duh Lah" absolutism is a transparently political excuse for what is very obviously a norm-breaking and unjust enforcement of a law that was working very well.

BurningFrog 1y ago

South Koreans, like most developed countries, get an automatic 90 day B-1 "visa waiver" visa when entering.