6 ms·

Apple reveals Lightning to microUSB adapter to pacify Europe

39 points by dchichkov 14y ago

corin_ 14y ago
I'm not familiar with the specifics of legislation, but surely it must be pretty shoddy if companies are allowed to charge for adapters which are needed to make the phone comply with the rule?
- panacea 14y ago
  I'm not an expert, but yeah, I'm fairly sure these will need to be included in the box for iPhones sold in Europe. Off topic, but the Lightening connector has 8 copper strips, and it's a 9 pin connecter. Presumably, the outer metal strip is the 9th? Does this adapter lessen the capabilities of the connector? I mean, are their legitimate functional requirements that the 9-pin connector addresses beyong the capabilities of a micro-usb? I've seen a comment or two on blogs, but no explanation.
  - _djo_ 14y ago
    Yes, the additional pins are for things like audio in/out & video out, making the Lightning connector more capable than microUSB alone. So this microUSB adaptor will be usable for charging only. In terms of the legislation that's ok, as it only specifies a common charging format, not a common accessory connector format.
    - panacea 14y ago
      Thanks. Permit me another question, as my Google fu would surely fail me when trying to find the answer amongst the wash of 'its a money grab' 'Apple should just use micro-usb'. Why was the original dock connector 13 pin, and why is 9 pin ok now?
      - _djo_ 14y ago
        The original was 30-pin, the new one is 8-pin. The reason this could happen is that many of the pins in the old dock connector are now legacy and no-longer used. Examples include a number of FireWire interfaces and some iPod-only S-Video and composite outputs. 8 pins were for FireWire alone. Also, the 30-pin's availability of dedicated ports for many functions let accessories connect directly to the inputs and outputs they needed without needing to go through a digital conversion process that would require additional software and require digital processing hardware. So an iPod dock could connect directly to the power and audio out ports, resulting in a simple and reliable circuit design. Now, years later, the cost of processing hardware has dropped massively so it's more feasible for a number of accessories to incorporate digital processing hardware to get the stuff they need from the digital in/out pins rather than needing dedicated pins.
        panacea 14y ago
        Many thanks! (Apologies to anyone having to scroll past my Q&... appreciated.. A)
    - kalleboo 14y ago
      > Yes, the additional pins are for things like audio in/out & video out, making the Lightning connector more capable than microUSB alone I don't think we know this yet, details on the Lightning connector specs are sparse, aside from it being "all-digital" and "adaptive".
      - panacea 14y ago
        This is what I was wondering about. You can do a heck of a lot of different things through a thunderbolt port. You don't need seperate copper pipes/pins for each function... It's not a miniature switchboard, with a bunch of tiny cables plugged into each pin.
        taligent 14y ago
        Thunderbolt cables have very expensive, somewhat fragile controllers at each end of the cable. The Lightening cables are designed to be cheap, simple and sturdy.
        panacea 14y ago
        Not an answer to the question I asked. You've conflated 'connector sturdiness' with function. A micro-usb plug could be made rugged. Thanks anyway.
    - vidarh 14y ago
      A lot of newer devices that use microUSB supports MHL, which allows for HD video signalling over the microUSB interface, so video / audio is not a good excuse for an incompatible port.
- ZeroGravitas 14y ago
  I assume in the box you'll get a charging cable that has lightning at one end, and standard USB at the other, which then plugs into a USB charger. The USB charger and cable are then reusable seperately. That's what you get with the current iPhones anyway, and I believe Apple were one of the one's pushing for that to be acceptable under this law, even though it's not really complying with the spirit.
  - unwind 14y ago
    I have very little first-hand experience with Apple products, but based on the wording in the EU FAQ linked to above, that assumption is a bit strange. Since the EU "understanding" specifies micro USB, i.e. the connector on the phone, your solution goes completely parallel to this requirement. I don't think it would be said to comply in that case, what if the users have chargers with fixed cables, terminating in micro USB plugs? Then you can't just substitute the Apple cable.
deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
brunnsbe 14y ago
I guess they will need to include the adapter with the phone here in EU, otherwise they can be in serious trouble with even a sales blockade by EU as one of the options. Here is a FAQ about the Micro-USB from the European Commission: http://ec.europa.eu/enterprise/sectors/rtte/chargers/questions/index_en.htm http://ec.europa.eu/enterprise/sectors/rtte/chargers/questio...
- taligent 14y ago
  Apple isn't stupid. They always include the adapter and charger with every iPhone sold. Not just to comply with regulations but because the iPhone is designed to be usable without a computer.
  - brunnsbe 14y ago
    Of course they will include the charger, but now the question is if they will include the micro-USB adapter as well.
bonaldi 14y ago
None of the adapters offered so far look like they're going to support use inside existing docks/devices -- the best you can do is the use the cable adapter and then sit the phone nearby. On top of that, there isn't even a Lightning dock for sale from Apple! This change seems badly thought out, and shaving a few mm from the overall device a poor justification for the massive expense and upheaval involved. When even hotel rooms have caught on to the popularity of the dock connector, changing it should have had better reasons.
- coob 14y ago
  > On top of that, there isn't even a Lightning dock for sale from Apple! There aren't even any Lightning products for sale from Apple yet, how about waiting more than 24 hours?
  - bonaldi 14y ago
    There are four different Lightning adapters on the store (OK, for pre-order). You think a few days will make a difference? You think they'll announce a dock next week with an "oops"? If they were doing a dock, it would be ready on day one.
- nicholassmith 14y ago
  Shaving a few mm is definitely a good justification for doing it. Every company is pushing for thinner devices. The dock connector has been in use for years, it was fit for purpose then and it's not fit for purpose now. Apple as a company has never shown any remorse over killing technology and ports it thinks are outdated and pushing forward. Personally I think it's the best thing of the new iPhone, the current connector sucks and is overly fragile, but I'm not invested in docks or similar mostly as the change has been expected since the iPhone 4ish.
  - bonaldi 14y ago
    "never shown any remorse over killing technology and ports it thinks are outdated and pushing forward" Whenever it has done this, it has nearly always been in the name of progress -- it has made things better. This makes them worse. It takes you from a world with nearly a half-billion usable dock connectors and devices in it to a world with none (unless you remember your adapter everywhere you go). This is not them replacing ADB with USB. This is them replacing VGA with ADC (their ill-fated custom video adapter which was rightfully killed when the market adopted DVI.) The market now is settling on Micro-USB (which would have equally given them their few mm back) The advantages of "adaptive digital interface" pale next to the advantages of "a charger and connection, wherever in the world you are".
moondowner 14y ago
Instead of changing the old port with Lightning, they could've changed it to microUSB.
- batista 14y ago
  Except if, you know, microUSB specs don't cover everything they need the adapter to do.
  - ars 14y ago
    They should have had two connectors, linked together. That way you can plug in just a standard microUSB, or a larger cable with microUSB right next to extra pins.
    - CamperBob2 14y ago
      And there's already a connector that does exactly that, namely a USB 3.0 SuperSpeed connector ( http://www.coolgear.com/images/USB3-Micro-3FT.jpg http://www.coolgear.com/images/USB3-Micro-3FT.jpg ). Since they don't need SuperSpeed transfer rates, they could have used the SuperSpeed pins for their own purposes. NIH wins every time at Apple, it seems.
      - taligent 14y ago
        >NIH wins every time at Apple, it seems. No not really. All of the ports on a Mac are standard.
      - batista 14y ago
        1) The head of that "micro" cable is huge. 2) Does it have the same power characteristics, is it suitable for other needs (video, audio, etc)? Is the chipset needed to drive it small and capable enough or does it tax the main CPU? I'm pretty sure there's more to the story. >NIH wins every time at Apple, it seems You mean like: USB3, Firewire and Thunderbolt ports (cross industry standards)? The only thing Apple does custom and change all the time is their monitor interfaces.
ars 14y ago
How is an adapter a valid way to obey the law? The goal is that you don't have proprietary chargers in the box. i.e. the goal is the charger, not the phone. If apple sells the phone with their charger, that has a proprietary interface that are not obeying the law, adapter or no adapter. To obey the law the charger must have a microUSB connector on it, and they need to offer phones with no charger at a lower cost as an option. The goal is to reduce waste, instead apple is increasing it with this adapter.
- sdfx 14y ago
  As I understand it, it's not a law but an agreement among the industry: > As a result, world leading mobile phone producers committed > themselves to ensure compatibility of data-enabled mobile phones,
- epo 14y ago
  You want to apply to Apple for a job as a lawyer, you obviously think you know more about the law then they do.
  - cico71 14y ago
    Well, their lawyers apparently thought to know well the laws about warranty around Europe and they got fined...
- m_eiman 14y ago
  The charger has a normal USB-A female connecter, so you can connect any USB cable that will fit in a computer to it. So the charger itself isn't limited to Lightning, but can be used with a USBA->microUSB cable. Also see http://ec.europa.eu/enterprise/sectors/rtte/chargers/questions/index_en.htm http://ec.europa.eu/enterprise/sectors/rtte/chargers/questio... that says: Which is the agreed common interface? On the basis of the Micro-USB interface, the companies have agreed to develop a common specification in order to allow for full compatibility of chargers and mobile phones. These specifications have been translated in European standards. N.B.: The agreement allows for the use of an adaptor.
ipt 14y ago
It's a shame Apple didn't design this new port such that a microUSB cable could plug straight into one half of it (for charging only).
josteink 14y ago
Apple: NIH reinvented.
Matsta 14y ago
It seems like something that will get lost after 2 seconds since its so small. Wouldn't it of been better if they made something really slim that just attached to the bottom of your phone? So if you did want to regularly charge with micro usb, you could just leave it on and not loose it. The other thing I don't get is why Apple charge so much for this tiny thing. In 2 seconds flat we'll see clones of it coming on ebay for $1, if Apple actually priced it at $5 or something, people would actually buy it and Apple would still make a 1000% mark up on it.
laacz 14y ago
Please, please, stop saying that there is a law on microUSB compatibility in EU. There is memorandum of agreement, which is not binding. Vendors agreed that it would be awesome, if you could charge any phone via common external power supply. That's all. Nobody is forcing anyone to do anything. Also, there are several standards, which also are not binding. One can implement them and wave hands, but one can also ignore them or work around them (via adaptor, for example).

39 points by dchichkov 14y ago

I'm not familiar with the specifics of legislation, but surely it must be pretty shoddy if companies are allowed to charge for adapters which are needed to make the phone comply with the rule?

panacea 14y ago
I'm not an expert, but yeah, I'm fairly sure these will need to be included in the box for iPhones sold in Europe. Off topic, but the Lightening connector has 8 copper strips, and it's a 9 pin connecter. Presumably, the outer metal strip is the 9th? Does this adapter lessen the capabilities of the connector? I mean, are their legitimate functional requirements that the 9-pin connector addresses beyong the capabilities of a micro-usb? I've seen a comment or two on blogs, but no explanation.
- _djo_ 14y ago
  Yes, the additional pins are for things like audio in/out & video out, making the Lightning connector more capable than microUSB alone. So this microUSB adaptor will be usable for charging only. In terms of the legislation that's ok, as it only specifies a common charging format, not a common accessory connector format.
  - panacea 14y ago
    Thanks. Permit me another question, as my Google fu would surely fail me when trying to find the answer amongst the wash of 'its a money grab' 'Apple should just use micro-usb'. Why was the original dock connector 13 pin, and why is 9 pin ok now?
    - _djo_ 14y ago
      The original was 30-pin, the new one is 8-pin. The reason this could happen is that many of the pins in the old dock connector are now legacy and no-longer used. Examples include a number of FireWire interfaces and some iPod-only S-Video and composite outputs. 8 pins were for FireWire alone. Also, the 30-pin's availability of dedicated ports for many functions let accessories connect directly to the inputs and outputs they needed without needing to go through a digital conversion process that would require additional software and require digital processing hardware. So an iPod dock could connect directly to the power and audio out ports, resulting in a simple and reliable circuit design. Now, years later, the cost of processing hardware has dropped massively so it's more feasible for a number of accessories to incorporate digital processing hardware to get the stuff they need from the digital in/out pins rather than needing dedicated pins.
      - panacea 14y ago
        Many thanks! (Apologies to anyone having to scroll past my Q&... appreciated.. A)
  - kalleboo 14y ago
    > Yes, the additional pins are for things like audio in/out & video out, making the Lightning connector more capable than microUSB alone I don't think we know this yet, details on the Lightning connector specs are sparse, aside from it being "all-digital" and "adaptive".
    - panacea 14y ago
      This is what I was wondering about. You can do a heck of a lot of different things through a thunderbolt port. You don't need seperate copper pipes/pins for each function... It's not a miniature switchboard, with a bunch of tiny cables plugged into each pin.
      - taligent 14y ago
        Thunderbolt cables have very expensive, somewhat fragile controllers at each end of the cable. The Lightening cables are designed to be cheap, simple and sturdy.
        panacea 14y ago
        Not an answer to the question I asked. You've conflated 'connector sturdiness' with function. A micro-usb plug could be made rugged. Thanks anyway.
  - vidarh 14y ago
    A lot of newer devices that use microUSB supports MHL, which allows for HD video signalling over the microUSB interface, so video / audio is not a good excuse for an incompatible port.
ZeroGravitas 14y ago
I assume in the box you'll get a charging cable that has lightning at one end, and standard USB at the other, which then plugs into a USB charger. The USB charger and cable are then reusable seperately. That's what you get with the current iPhones anyway, and I believe Apple were one of the one's pushing for that to be acceptable under this law, even though it's not really complying with the spirit.
- unwind 14y ago
  I have very little first-hand experience with Apple products, but based on the wording in the EU FAQ linked to above, that assumption is a bit strange. Since the EU "understanding" specifies micro USB, i.e. the connector on the phone, your solution goes completely parallel to this requirement. I don't think it would be said to comply in that case, what if the users have chargers with fixed cables, terminating in micro USB plugs? Then you can't just substitute the Apple cable.

deleted 14y ago

[deleted]

brunnsbe 14y ago

I guess they will need to include the adapter with the phone here in EU, otherwise they can be in serious trouble with even a sales blockade by EU as one of the options. Here is a FAQ about the Micro-USB from the European Commission: http://ec.europa.eu/enterprise/sectors/rtte/chargers/questions/index_en.htm http://ec.europa.eu/enterprise/sectors/rtte/chargers/questio...

taligent 14y ago
Apple isn't stupid. They always include the adapter and charger with every iPhone sold. Not just to comply with regulations but because the iPhone is designed to be usable without a computer.
- brunnsbe 14y ago
  Of course they will include the charger, but now the question is if they will include the micro-USB adapter as well.

bonaldi 14y ago

None of the adapters offered so far look like they're going to support use inside existing docks/devices -- the best you can do is the use the cable adapter and then sit the phone nearby. On top of that, there isn't even a Lightning dock for sale from Apple! This change seems badly thought out, and shaving a few mm from the overall device a poor justification for the massive expense and upheaval involved. When even hotel rooms have caught on to the popularity of the dock connector, changing it should have had better reasons.

coob 14y ago
> On top of that, there isn't even a Lightning dock for sale from Apple! There aren't even any Lightning products for sale from Apple yet, how about waiting more than 24 hours?
- bonaldi 14y ago
  There are four different Lightning adapters on the store (OK, for pre-order). You think a few days will make a difference? You think they'll announce a dock next week with an "oops"? If they were doing a dock, it would be ready on day one.
nicholassmith 14y ago
Shaving a few mm is definitely a good justification for doing it. Every company is pushing for thinner devices. The dock connector has been in use for years, it was fit for purpose then and it's not fit for purpose now. Apple as a company has never shown any remorse over killing technology and ports it thinks are outdated and pushing forward. Personally I think it's the best thing of the new iPhone, the current connector sucks and is overly fragile, but I'm not invested in docks or similar mostly as the change has been expected since the iPhone 4ish.
- bonaldi 14y ago
  "never shown any remorse over killing technology and ports it thinks are outdated and pushing forward" Whenever it has done this, it has nearly always been in the name of progress -- it has made things better. This makes them worse. It takes you from a world with nearly a half-billion usable dock connectors and devices in it to a world with none (unless you remember your adapter everywhere you go). This is not them replacing ADB with USB. This is them replacing VGA with ADC (their ill-fated custom video adapter which was rightfully killed when the market adopted DVI.) The market now is settling on Micro-USB (which would have equally given them their few mm back) The advantages of "adaptive digital interface" pale next to the advantages of "a charger and connection, wherever in the world you are".

moondowner 14y ago

Instead of changing the old port with Lightning, they could've changed it to microUSB.

batista 14y ago
Except if, you know, microUSB specs don't cover everything they need the adapter to do.
- ars 14y ago
  They should have had two connectors, linked together. That way you can plug in just a standard microUSB, or a larger cable with microUSB right next to extra pins.
  - CamperBob2 14y ago
    And there's already a connector that does exactly that, namely a USB 3.0 SuperSpeed connector ( http://www.coolgear.com/images/USB3-Micro-3FT.jpg http://www.coolgear.com/images/USB3-Micro-3FT.jpg ). Since they don't need SuperSpeed transfer rates, they could have used the SuperSpeed pins for their own purposes. NIH wins every time at Apple, it seems.
    - taligent 14y ago
      >NIH wins every time at Apple, it seems. No not really. All of the ports on a Mac are standard.
    - batista 14y ago
      1) The head of that "micro" cable is huge. 2) Does it have the same power characteristics, is it suitable for other needs (video, audio, etc)? Is the chipset needed to drive it small and capable enough or does it tax the main CPU? I'm pretty sure there's more to the story. >NIH wins every time at Apple, it seems You mean like: USB3, Firewire and Thunderbolt ports (cross industry standards)? The only thing Apple does custom and change all the time is their monitor interfaces.

ars 14y ago

How is an adapter a valid way to obey the law? The goal is that you don't have proprietary chargers in the box. i.e. the goal is the charger, not the phone. If apple sells the phone with their charger, that has a proprietary interface that are not obeying the law, adapter or no adapter. To obey the law the charger must have a microUSB connector on it, and they need to offer phones with no charger at a lower cost as an option. The goal is to reduce waste, instead apple is increasing it with this adapter.

sdfx 14y ago
As I understand it, it's not a law but an agreement among the industry: > As a result, world leading mobile phone producers committed > themselves to ensure compatibility of data-enabled mobile phones,
epo 14y ago
You want to apply to Apple for a job as a lawyer, you obviously think you know more about the law then they do.
- cico71 14y ago
  Well, their lawyers apparently thought to know well the laws about warranty around Europe and they got fined...
m_eiman 14y ago
The charger has a normal USB-A female connecter, so you can connect any USB cable that will fit in a computer to it. So the charger itself isn't limited to Lightning, but can be used with a USBA->microUSB cable. Also see http://ec.europa.eu/enterprise/sectors/rtte/chargers/questions/index_en.htm http://ec.europa.eu/enterprise/sectors/rtte/chargers/questio... that says: Which is the agreed common interface? On the basis of the Micro-USB interface, the companies have agreed to develop a common specification in order to allow for full compatibility of chargers and mobile phones. These specifications have been translated in European standards. N.B.: The agreement allows for the use of an adaptor.

ipt 14y ago

It's a shame Apple didn't design this new port such that a microUSB cable could plug straight into one half of it (for charging only).

josteink 14y ago

Apple: NIH reinvented.

Matsta 14y ago

It seems like something that will get lost after 2 seconds since its so small. Wouldn't it of been better if they made something really slim that just attached to the bottom of your phone? So if you did want to regularly charge with micro usb, you could just leave it on and not loose it. The other thing I don't get is why Apple charge so much for this tiny thing. In 2 seconds flat we'll see clones of it coming on ebay for $1, if Apple actually priced it at $5 or something, people would actually buy it and Apple would still make a 1000% mark up on it.

laacz 14y ago

Please, please, stop saying that there is a law on microUSB compatibility in EU. There is memorandum of agreement, which is not binding. Vendors agreed that it would be awesome, if you could charge any phone via common external power supply. That's all. Nobody is forcing anyone to do anything. Also, there are several standards, which also are not binding. One can implement them and wave hands, but one can also ignore them or work around them (via adaptor, for example).