5 ms·

How to study people who are drunk

55 points by marojejian 1y ago

marojejian 1y ago
archive: https://archive.is/nRLrZ https://archive.is/nRLrZ Though in general i think science needs more rigor, this a was a fund article with a legit point. And the findings listed on drinking were interesting. (does reduce pain, and some people don't get hung over)
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
- southernplaces7 1y ago
  Can absolutely vouch for the pain reduction aspect. It's not exactly a pointed anesthetic in the way some medications are, but alcohol certainly dulls a lot of aches and moderate pains of the body. Though I think this is also partly due to the distracting effect of relaxed and socializing while drunk. Love it either way, in moderation. Also, i'm one of those people who rarely suffers anything resembling a hangover, even after those rare nights of heavier drinking, but then maybe drinking only hard spirits helps, because sugar-loaded alcoholic drinks like wine, beer and cocktails are famous for creating some of the most monstrous hangovers among those who get hangovers in general.
  - iamflimflam1 1y ago
    Up until I turned 50 I was the same. Now a couple of drinks will have an impact the following day.
    - adrian_b 1y ago
      The throughput of the liver for many of the enzymatic reactions that it performs, either for converting harmful chemical compounds into harmless substances, or for generating some conditionally-essential nutrients from precursors present in food, decreases in older people. Because of this, when older, one should pay more attention to observing a healthy diet, which contains smaller amounts of harmful substances (e.g. alcohol) and enough quantities of all nutrients, including those that can be produced by a human body, but in insufficient quantities in older people (e.g. long-chain omega-3 fatty acids).
    - carlosjobim 1y ago
      I'm in the same boat and recently read an article suggesting that with age, even one drink will have very detrimental effects on the whole night's sleep. The solution: have that drink or two much earlier, like 5 in the afternoon. I'm going to try it, but honestly it is in the evening that we want to drink.
  - jajko 1y ago
    That sounds rather sad... sure when I was 18 or 20 this would be cool, but then people eventually actually grow up and have adult lives. Its trivial to fall into alcoholism as billions have already achieved, normally unobservable by given person since all is fine and fun. Btw hard liquors contain tons of sugars by principle, and ie good dry red wine comparatively little, in reasonable amounts of course.
    - nottorp 1y ago
      > Btw hard liquors contain tons of sugars by principle Seriously? At a quick search all results contain something like "Generally, pure alcohol or hard drinks such as vodka, whiskey, tequila, gin, and rum are absolutely sugar-free.". Are you speaking of cocktails or the 20% alcohol sweet drinks?
      - deleted 1y ago
        [deleted]
    - southernplaces7 1y ago
      >That sounds rather sad... sure when I was 18 or 20 this would be cool, but then people eventually actually grow up and have adult lives. What exactly sounds sad? That some people can occasionally enjoy a few drinks and socialization without a hangover? Don't jump to some silly puritanical conclusion that this simple statement makes one an alcoholic or childish. Many people of all ages enjoy a few drinks with friends without being sad infantile alcoholics, and nothing about "adult life" precludes being able to enjoy such things in moderation. How about climbing down from that high horse of absolutist judgement about how others should live their lives. Also, no, do a simple bit of checking, hard liquor general contains very little or no sugar.
      - johnisgood 1y ago
        This is the reason for why I refrain from commenting on medications, especially opioids. Why would anyone be against, say, someone taking Kratom? Let people with chronic pain and/or anxiety and/or depression take it. Why would I be against them improving their quality of life as long as they are not posing any harm to society or even themselves? Some people really just want others to suffer, it seems. And yeah, I do not think there is much harm in drinking alcohol socially either. Get a buzz, take a cab / Uber home, etc. If someone starts a fight because they are piss-poor drunk, or drives under the influence, that does pose harm to society, which changes a lot, IMO. But if you go home and grab a beer, why would I be against that? Not my business. I especially hate it when people think it is their business and they want to control other people's lives. Like damn, come, swap with me (not you), have a chronic pain with severe anxiety and depression and we will see if you could just think it away like I am sometimes being told to do, or you know, just let me take what works for me without harming anyone, including even myself.
- TimByte 1y ago
  More rigor is always good, but there’s also value in studying messy real-world behavior as it happens
throejd84mrifmr 1y ago
> And if they did, a team of neuroscientists from the local university was waiting to gently torture them. > The researchers were on site to test how well alcohol can numb pain. > “Ethically, we can’t ask people to drink alcohol to levels they do in their day-to-day lives,” > the point beyond which they felt proper consent was hard to establish. How is this study ethical? Researchers declared they do not need formal consent, because that would be too hard, and just went on, to torture impaired people! Universities were going on and on, how drunk people can not consent, and even saying hi to someone in a bar is unethical! And now serious research institute pulls this stunt with torturing people without their consent!
- titanomachy 1y ago
  I'm pretty sure they're saying they didn't experiment on anyone over 0.15 BAC, because they felt that those people were unable to give true consent.
  - throejd84mrifmr 1y ago
    > A blood alcohol content (BAC) of 0.15% is considered a very high level, resulting in severe impairment of balance, coordination, and muscle control, making walking and talking difficult. At this level, you may experience confusion, vomiting, loss of consciousness How this intoxication level was measured? I seriously doubt they carried scales and analyzed blood samples, before asking for consent!
    - lazyasciiart 1y ago
      Breathalyzer tests. Was that a real question? https://www.startribune.com/does-booze-relieve-pain-u-researchers-test-inebriated-minnesota-state-fair-patrons-to-find-out/601158376 https://www.startribune.com/does-booze-relieve-pain-u-resear...
      - Scoundreller 1y ago
        Which different countries use different constants to convert to blood alcohol concentrations. But the conversion factor isn’t constant, even if laws pretend it is. The same “breath” reading could give you 15% different results depending on the country the test is taken in… https://www.dart-sensors.com/breath-alcohol-conversions-for-different-countries/ https://www.dart-sensors.com/breath-alcohol-conversions-for-...
smcin 1y ago
This is getting downvoted a lot, probably because the title makes it sound frivolous which it isn't; it's a legit case in how to do a naturalistic study.
- immibis 1y ago
  Posts can't be downvoted, only flagged.
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]
  - smcin 1y ago
    Ok, flagged then
yoyo250 1y ago
[dead]
untrimmed 1y ago
With all our smartwatches and social media apps tracking us, aren't we all already part of some giant, unofficial naturalistic study?
- lukan 1y ago
  The data is unfortunately not quite open and not meant for science, but for advertisement and propaganda.
gizajob 1y ago
They’re not drunk, honest.
TimByte 1y ago
There's definitely a tradeoff in terms of experimental control, but the real-world insight seems worth it.
PicassoCTs 1y ago
[dead]
josefritzishere 1y ago
This post and the update to the DOD. Is there a connection?
perrygeo 1y ago
In college I was part of a research lab that did alcohol behavior studies at student parties. One thing we learned early on: the presence of alcohol testing turns it into a drinking contest. At least with stupid young college boys. We'd show up to a frat party with a survey and breathalyzers and got people to line up before things got ... weird. As soon as word caught on that we were measuring blood alcohol levels, the boys would start chugging alcohol at dangerous rates to see who could blow the highest BAC. So much for promoting safe drinking behavior! And this would obviously invalidate the research, so we had to go in like a strike team and collect as much data before word got out!

55 points by marojejian 1y ago

archive: https://archive.is/nRLrZ https://archive.is/nRLrZ Though in general i think science needs more rigor, this a was a fund article with a legit point. And the findings listed on drinking were interesting. (does reduce pain, and some people don't get hung over)

deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
southernplaces7 1y ago
Can absolutely vouch for the pain reduction aspect. It's not exactly a pointed anesthetic in the way some medications are, but alcohol certainly dulls a lot of aches and moderate pains of the body. Though I think this is also partly due to the distracting effect of relaxed and socializing while drunk. Love it either way, in moderation. Also, i'm one of those people who rarely suffers anything resembling a hangover, even after those rare nights of heavier drinking, but then maybe drinking only hard spirits helps, because sugar-loaded alcoholic drinks like wine, beer and cocktails are famous for creating some of the most monstrous hangovers among those who get hangovers in general.
- iamflimflam1 1y ago
  Up until I turned 50 I was the same. Now a couple of drinks will have an impact the following day.
  - adrian_b 1y ago
    The throughput of the liver for many of the enzymatic reactions that it performs, either for converting harmful chemical compounds into harmless substances, or for generating some conditionally-essential nutrients from precursors present in food, decreases in older people. Because of this, when older, one should pay more attention to observing a healthy diet, which contains smaller amounts of harmful substances (e.g. alcohol) and enough quantities of all nutrients, including those that can be produced by a human body, but in insufficient quantities in older people (e.g. long-chain omega-3 fatty acids).
  - carlosjobim 1y ago
    I'm in the same boat and recently read an article suggesting that with age, even one drink will have very detrimental effects on the whole night's sleep. The solution: have that drink or two much earlier, like 5 in the afternoon. I'm going to try it, but honestly it is in the evening that we want to drink.
- jajko 1y ago
  That sounds rather sad... sure when I was 18 or 20 this would be cool, but then people eventually actually grow up and have adult lives. Its trivial to fall into alcoholism as billions have already achieved, normally unobservable by given person since all is fine and fun. Btw hard liquors contain tons of sugars by principle, and ie good dry red wine comparatively little, in reasonable amounts of course.
  - nottorp 1y ago
    > Btw hard liquors contain tons of sugars by principle Seriously? At a quick search all results contain something like "Generally, pure alcohol or hard drinks such as vodka, whiskey, tequila, gin, and rum are absolutely sugar-free.". Are you speaking of cocktails or the 20% alcohol sweet drinks?
    - deleted 1y ago
      [deleted]
  - southernplaces7 1y ago
    >That sounds rather sad... sure when I was 18 or 20 this would be cool, but then people eventually actually grow up and have adult lives. What exactly sounds sad? That some people can occasionally enjoy a few drinks and socialization without a hangover? Don't jump to some silly puritanical conclusion that this simple statement makes one an alcoholic or childish. Many people of all ages enjoy a few drinks with friends without being sad infantile alcoholics, and nothing about "adult life" precludes being able to enjoy such things in moderation. How about climbing down from that high horse of absolutist judgement about how others should live their lives. Also, no, do a simple bit of checking, hard liquor general contains very little or no sugar.
    - johnisgood 1y ago
      This is the reason for why I refrain from commenting on medications, especially opioids. Why would anyone be against, say, someone taking Kratom? Let people with chronic pain and/or anxiety and/or depression take it. Why would I be against them improving their quality of life as long as they are not posing any harm to society or even themselves? Some people really just want others to suffer, it seems. And yeah, I do not think there is much harm in drinking alcohol socially either. Get a buzz, take a cab / Uber home, etc. If someone starts a fight because they are piss-poor drunk, or drives under the influence, that does pose harm to society, which changes a lot, IMO. But if you go home and grab a beer, why would I be against that? Not my business. I especially hate it when people think it is their business and they want to control other people's lives. Like damn, come, swap with me (not you), have a chronic pain with severe anxiety and depression and we will see if you could just think it away like I am sometimes being told to do, or you know, just let me take what works for me without harming anyone, including even myself.
TimByte 1y ago
More rigor is always good, but there’s also value in studying messy real-world behavior as it happens

throejd84mrifmr 1y ago

> And if they did, a team of neuroscientists from the local university was waiting to gently torture them. > The researchers were on site to test how well alcohol can numb pain. > “Ethically, we can’t ask people to drink alcohol to levels they do in their day-to-day lives,” > the point beyond which they felt proper consent was hard to establish. How is this study ethical? Researchers declared they do not need formal consent, because that would be too hard, and just went on, to torture impaired people! Universities were going on and on, how drunk people can not consent, and even saying hi to someone in a bar is unethical! And now serious research institute pulls this stunt with torturing people without their consent!

titanomachy 1y ago
I'm pretty sure they're saying they didn't experiment on anyone over 0.15 BAC, because they felt that those people were unable to give true consent.
- throejd84mrifmr 1y ago
  > A blood alcohol content (BAC) of 0.15% is considered a very high level, resulting in severe impairment of balance, coordination, and muscle control, making walking and talking difficult. At this level, you may experience confusion, vomiting, loss of consciousness How this intoxication level was measured? I seriously doubt they carried scales and analyzed blood samples, before asking for consent!
  - lazyasciiart 1y ago
    Breathalyzer tests. Was that a real question? https://www.startribune.com/does-booze-relieve-pain-u-researchers-test-inebriated-minnesota-state-fair-patrons-to-find-out/601158376 https://www.startribune.com/does-booze-relieve-pain-u-resear...
    - Scoundreller 1y ago
      Which different countries use different constants to convert to blood alcohol concentrations. But the conversion factor isn’t constant, even if laws pretend it is. The same “breath” reading could give you 15% different results depending on the country the test is taken in… https://www.dart-sensors.com/breath-alcohol-conversions-for-different-countries/ https://www.dart-sensors.com/breath-alcohol-conversions-for-...

smcin 1y ago

This is getting downvoted a lot, probably because the title makes it sound frivolous which it isn't; it's a legit case in how to do a naturalistic study.

immibis 1y ago
Posts can't be downvoted, only flagged.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
- smcin 1y ago
  Ok, flagged then

yoyo250 1y ago

[dead]

untrimmed 1y ago

With all our smartwatches and social media apps tracking us, aren't we all already part of some giant, unofficial naturalistic study?

lukan 1y ago
The data is unfortunately not quite open and not meant for science, but for advertisement and propaganda.

gizajob 1y ago

They’re not drunk, honest.

TimByte 1y ago

There's definitely a tradeoff in terms of experimental control, but the real-world insight seems worth it.

PicassoCTs 1y ago

[dead]

josefritzishere 1y ago

This post and the update to the DOD. Is there a connection?

perrygeo 1y ago

In college I was part of a research lab that did alcohol behavior studies at student parties. One thing we learned early on: the presence of alcohol testing turns it into a drinking contest. At least with stupid young college boys. We'd show up to a frat party with a survey and breathalyzers and got people to line up before things got ... weird. As soon as word caught on that we were measuring blood alcohol levels, the boys would start chugging alcohol at dangerous rates to see who could blow the highest BAC. So much for promoting safe drinking behavior! And this would obviously invalidate the research, so we had to go in like a strike team and collect as much data before word got out!