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> Lack of standards: For 'L3' DC Fast Charging, the Leaf has a CHAdeMO port. Teslas and many newer EVs have NACS. Then there's CCS1 and CCS2. And charging stati

> Lack of standards: For 'L3' DC Fast Charging, the Leaf has a CHAdeMO port. Teslas and many newer EVs have NACS. Then there's CCS1 and CCS2. And charging stations are run by multiple vendors with multiple apps and payment methods. It's not like gas stations, like with Shell, BP, Buckee's, etc. where you just drive up, stick the gas nozzle in your tank, and squeeze. Afaik in Europe, CCS2 is the standard (and mandatory these days), when I rented an EV a few weeks back there was no location which didn’t have it. And all the spots I tried charging at except Tesla accepted card payment (though there were a pair of times it was a struggle getting a card to work). Apps / memberships will get you cheaper prices but that’s about all I saw (and I didn’t bother with any of it). TBH the only things that annoyed me were implementation issues of the car (a polestar 4) as well as how overly wide it is. And that the rental company (AVIS) does not provide an AC adapter, so I was not able to charge at any wallplug even though I had the opportunity to charge the car at least twice over in all (I will likely purchase one if that remains their policy and I rent more EVs). All this is modulo it being summer and a pretty long range model so range anxiety was present but reasonably limited.

goldchainposse 1y ago
I understand how the US and EU have different electrical outlets, voltages and frequencies. The systems developed independently, standardized on compatible versions locally, and standardizing globally would be very expensive and almost impossible to do safely. I don't understand how North America and Europe settled on different EV charging plugs.
- herbst 1y ago
  I don't know how it is in the US but there is no one standard charging port here in Europe.
  - ddalex 1y ago
    CCS2 is mandatory in europe
    - herbst 1y ago
      I don't drive a RV, I just charge my campers batteries sometimes. I have 3 different connector cables from the common connectors I found in Switzerland, France and Italy only.
      - masklinn 1y ago
        Are you talking about shore power? Because that has nothing to do with EV charging.
        herbst 1y ago
        No.
        ranguna 1y ago
        Then what are you talking about? We are talking about electric vehicle charging, as in, cars that have electric motors and are powered by a battery.
        herbst 1y ago
        In my area according to Google maps I see J1772, CCS1, CCS2, Typ 2, CHAdeMO, NACS next to schuko (landline) (in Austria right now). As said not all stations provide all the standards, not every station has CCS2, hence why I carry multiple cable adapters. That's all I know really. As said I don't drive an electric car.
        foxglacier 1y ago
        I think you confused everyone by saying RV instead of EV previously.
        Symbiote 1y ago
        Google Maps is misleading, as two of those are not approved in Europe, and two others are synonyms.
- Symbiote 1y ago
  Three-phase power is ubiquitous in Europe, my oven and stove are connected to it yet this is a small apartment. The slightly larger plug (to fit the extra pins) and extra cables are worthwhile for the higher power and balanced consumption.
- darknavi 1y ago
  CCS1/2 (DC Fast charging) and J1772 (AC "Slow" charging) share a port on most cars. That is, the CCS plug uses the entire plug and the J1772 part uses just the upper portion of the plug. The AC "slow" charging in the US only needs to support two-phase power (residential power is two phase) and the EU (and others?) generally need to support three-phase power. NACS is just better in North America (versus CCS1) because it's smaller and much easier to physically handle, but the AC "slow" charging pinning only supports two phase power.
boznz 1y ago
I also rented a Jeep Avenger EV a few weeks back in the UK, several smaller, out of the way vendors still required their specific App and where contactless payments were an option it more expensive at around 80 to 90 pence per KWH. A week into the hire I found I could use my Tesla app and the supercharger network to charge my rental and the max there is only 51 pence per KWH and the supercharger network is expansive just works. An EV is a good option for the UK if you prefer automatics or EV's I will certainly hire one again.
vel0city 1y ago
It's funny he mentions Buc-ees, as on the last couple of road trips with my non-Tesla EV buc-ees was a common charging stop where it was just pull up, plug in, and tap my credit card. In fact, I haven't had to use an app for a DCFC in several years. They either work with plug and charge or take payment directly on the dispenser.
lucideer 1y ago
Anyone who follows Jeff will know he's US-based, but I still really felt he could've highlighted that fact more in that charging port standards section. The fact that both J1772 & CCS2 are 100% universal in Europe is huge. So much so even Tesla switched to CCS2. This doesn't help Jeff but certainly one less problem for many readers of his article.
- WorldMaker 1y ago
  Yeah, the US is in the slow market-based processes of standardizing towards NACS (which is CCS2 protocols over what used to be just Tesla's plug). It's not as standard as the EU has committed to, but with Tesla's charging network having a big first mover advantage in North America, it sometimes feels close.
- Ambroos 1y ago
  It's IEC 62196-2 Type 2 (Mennekes) and CCS2 in Europe. J1772 is the North American standard that is used in CCS1.
- masklinn 1y ago
  > Anyone who follows Jeff will know he's US-based That was obvious from the article but given they specifically mentioned CCS2 bundled with the mess that is US charging I thought important to point that (anecdotally) the situations are quite distinct. Both in terms of charging hardware and payment.
- Hamuko 1y ago
  Go to your local Mitsubishi dealership in Europe and you will find the 2025 Outlander PHEV with a CHAdeMO plug. And I believe if you buy a pre-2019 Tesla Model S or Model X, you will have to deal with Tesla's own plug.
  - formerly_proven 1y ago
    I'm guessing it skirts regulations by being a PHEV, since CCS2 is mandatory for DCFC otherwise. Skirting regulations is quite fitting for a PHEV, of course, as that is their raison d'etre.
ZeroGravitas 1y ago
It's not a lack of standards, it was an early proliferation of standards. Chademo is still standard in Japan. Also, given his comparison to the ease of the old way, in Europe at least it's fairly standard to know someone who has filled their hire car with diesel (or not diesel) by mistake. They have warning stickers on the filler flap because it happens so often. Meanwhile knowing someone who uses the inexplicably more expensive premium fuel option also offered is maybe rarer. Maybe EV-owning car reviewers should counter the FUD by pretending to be confused by these, always using the most expensive one in price comparisons and then breaking the car completely by using the wrong one during their test drive, like the many propaganda pieces put out about EVs.
- masklinn 1y ago
  A big difference is that if you go to a gas station you’ll have both (and possibly more). At least in Europe. So while you need to fill with the right fuel unless the pump is broken or the tanks are empty the fuel you need will be available. In the US, if you roll up to a random charging station you may or may not find a plug matching your car’s port.
  - vel0city 1y ago
    As someone who has gone on many EV road trips over the years, I've never had an issue of rolling into a random charging station and not having the right kind of plug. All I've had to do is avoid Tesla stations, all the other brands have worked with my car. And now that I got a Tesla DC adapter that I keep in my trunk, I can do fast charging at a decent chunk of the Tesla stations.
  - WorldMaker 1y ago
    NACS should help change that eventually (hopefully on the sooner side of eventually), as it wins the marketplace and chargers get slowly updated.
  - soneil 1y ago
    I think the common mistake they’re alluding to is Europe and north America having conflicting standards for colour-coding the pumps. So here green is unleaded and black is diesel, which can catch American tourists unaware. (Especially so with language barriers, “sans plomb” in French is not intuitively petrol/gas/benzo)
stavros 1y ago
I can confirm that, here in Greece, everything is CCS2. There are also CHAdeMO ports here and there, but I don't know what car uses those. However, I haven't seen a station that takes card yet (or they don't advertise it). They all have their own app, which is inconvenient and a hassle.
- fifilura 1y ago
  > but I don't know what car uses those It is exactly this kind of Nissan Leaf. Japanese older generation cars. Enough around to still be available, but I think it is slowly disappearing. After that only 6kW (32A/single phase) charging will be available for these cars.
  - floxy 1y ago
    There are fast charging adapters from CCS2 (and CCS1) to CHAdeMO: https://www.electway-charger.com/CCS2_to_CHAdeMO_adapter.html https://www.electway-charger.com/CCS2_to_CHAdeMO_adapter.htm...
    - tzs 1y ago
      Quite pricey though. That one is $1000 on Alibaba. The problem is the CCS and CHAdeMO is different protocols so an adapter has to be an active adapter. With CCS to CHAdeMO you need something to power the active electronics in the adapter. I've heard of some that do this by having a cable and plug on the adapter that plug into the car's 12 V port. I've heard of others that have a battery in the adapter. Compare to adapters between NACS and CCS. NACS and CCS do use the same protocol. They just have a different pinout. The adapters are passive and so can be a lot cheaper.
magicalhippo 1y ago
> And that the rental company (AVIS) does not provide an AC adapter Here in Norway, new EVs are no longer allowed to be sold with AC adapters, due to the potential fire hazard. At least that's the reason I got when I purchased my current EV. Perhaps a EU thing, wouldn't surprise me.
- NewJazz 1y ago
  Norway is not in the EU.
  - magicalhippo 1y ago
    As a Norwegian I am well aware of that. However, we're part of the European Economic Area[1], and as such import a lot of EU regulation and standards. Mostly because we're required per the EEA terms, but also because some of those make sense. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Economic_Area https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Economic_Area
- kingstnap 1y ago
  This seems like the kind of regulation that causes more harm than it saves in anyone's house actually burning down. I did a cursory search and didn't find any EU reports of a house fire caused by a L1 charger. Sure you might burn a house down if you find one that has a plug which isn't correctly installed with loose connectors but the fire risk here wasn't the EV. Its the incorrectly installed wiring. You don't tell people to get rid of their fridges because some people might have forgetten to plug theirs in and therefore they could get food poisoning from spoiled food inside.
  - spicybbq 1y ago
    It could also lead to people buying cheap, potentially defective chargers online instead of getting a more reliable manufacturer-included one.
  - magicalhippo 1y ago
    I haven't been able to find concrete stories either, though these[1] statistics might be an indication. It shows there's a few EVs per year that lead to a building fire, though sadly nothing further about source. So could be something else like battery. That said there's been a campaign for several years trying to get rid of sockets for high current or permanent installations. I recently replaced both an electric water heater and mini split AC, and in both cases the previous appliance had used a socket and that was not allowed anymore. Could well be they're just being proactive. [1]: https://brannstatistikk.no/search?searchId=6EB5433C-AC28-4F6C-A96D-E1BCED8ABC6B&type=SEARCH_DEFINITION https://brannstatistikk.no/search?searchId=6EB5433C-AC28-4F6...
msh 1y ago
In many countries charging a car in a wallplug is a fire hazard (they are not rated for the heat).
- throwaway-blaze 1y ago
  This doesn't make sense. Wall plugs (like circuit breakers) are designed for a particular max amperage draw. If I have a 10A 120V circuit and wall plug, I can't charge my car at 8A? I have wall ovens that connect via a 50A circuit. Do I need to worry about fire hazards when I bake something for hours and hours?
  - Volundr 1y ago
    Not an electrician, consult a real one for any actual electrical work or questions. It's complicated. Heat builds up over time. So for example your standard 15 amp breaker on a 14 gauge wire in the US is rated for 15 amps of intermittent use, but if you draw that continuously without letting the heat dissipate it becomes a fire hazard. IIRC circuits are generally rated for ~80% of their max load for continuous use, so that 15 amp circuit is considered good for 12 continuous. Or in your 10 amp example 8 should be ok. Your oven and circuit should be sized such that your long cooks aren't a concern, if you look at it's label you'll probably find it has a max draw of well below 50amps, but if you have actual doubts ask a professional.
    - Astronaut3315 1y ago
      Also not an electrician. A concern for high current outlets in the US, such as NEMA 14-50, is that they weren't necessarily designed for a large number of plug/unplug cycles. Typically you'd plug your stove in and leave it there for years to decades. If you use the same 14-50 outlet for car charging, which is not uncommon, the contacts can lose their grip over time. End users may want to take their mobile EVSE with them and incur cycles on the outlet. Properly installed but worn 14-50s have been known to melt or even catch fire under these conditions. End users should prefer to have their EVSE(s) hardwired or installed with a higher grade outlet like Hubbell or Bryant.
    - 1y ago

goldchainposse 1y ago

I understand how the US and EU have different electrical outlets, voltages and frequencies. The systems developed independently, standardized on compatible versions locally, and standardizing globally would be very expensive and almost impossible to do safely. I don't understand how North America and Europe settled on different EV charging plugs.

herbst 1y ago
I don't know how it is in the US but there is no one standard charging port here in Europe.
- ddalex 1y ago
  CCS2 is mandatory in europe
  - herbst 1y ago
    I don't drive a RV, I just charge my campers batteries sometimes. I have 3 different connector cables from the common connectors I found in Switzerland, France and Italy only.
    - masklinn 1y ago
      Are you talking about shore power? Because that has nothing to do with EV charging.
      - herbst 1y ago
        No.
        ranguna 1y ago
        Then what are you talking about? We are talking about electric vehicle charging, as in, cars that have electric motors and are powered by a battery.
        herbst 1y ago
        In my area according to Google maps I see J1772, CCS1, CCS2, Typ 2, CHAdeMO, NACS next to schuko (landline) (in Austria right now). As said not all stations provide all the standards, not every station has CCS2, hence why I carry multiple cable adapters. That's all I know really. As said I don't drive an electric car.
        foxglacier 1y ago
        I think you confused everyone by saying RV instead of EV previously.
        Symbiote 1y ago
        Google Maps is misleading, as two of those are not approved in Europe, and two others are synonyms.
Symbiote 1y ago
Three-phase power is ubiquitous in Europe, my oven and stove are connected to it yet this is a small apartment. The slightly larger plug (to fit the extra pins) and extra cables are worthwhile for the higher power and balanced consumption.
darknavi 1y ago
CCS1/2 (DC Fast charging) and J1772 (AC "Slow" charging) share a port on most cars. That is, the CCS plug uses the entire plug and the J1772 part uses just the upper portion of the plug. The AC "slow" charging in the US only needs to support two-phase power (residential power is two phase) and the EU (and others?) generally need to support three-phase power. NACS is just better in North America (versus CCS1) because it's smaller and much easier to physically handle, but the AC "slow" charging pinning only supports two phase power.

boznz 1y ago

I also rented a Jeep Avenger EV a few weeks back in the UK, several smaller, out of the way vendors still required their specific App and where contactless payments were an option it more expensive at around 80 to 90 pence per KWH. A week into the hire I found I could use my Tesla app and the supercharger network to charge my rental and the max there is only 51 pence per KWH and the supercharger network is expansive just works. An EV is a good option for the UK if you prefer automatics or EV's I will certainly hire one again.

vel0city 1y ago

It's funny he mentions Buc-ees, as on the last couple of road trips with my non-Tesla EV buc-ees was a common charging stop where it was just pull up, plug in, and tap my credit card. In fact, I haven't had to use an app for a DCFC in several years. They either work with plug and charge or take payment directly on the dispenser.

lucideer 1y ago

Anyone who follows Jeff will know he's US-based, but I still really felt he could've highlighted that fact more in that charging port standards section. The fact that both J1772 & CCS2 are 100% universal in Europe is huge. So much so even Tesla switched to CCS2. This doesn't help Jeff but certainly one less problem for many readers of his article.

WorldMaker 1y ago
Yeah, the US is in the slow market-based processes of standardizing towards NACS (which is CCS2 protocols over what used to be just Tesla's plug). It's not as standard as the EU has committed to, but with Tesla's charging network having a big first mover advantage in North America, it sometimes feels close.
Ambroos 1y ago
It's IEC 62196-2 Type 2 (Mennekes) and CCS2 in Europe. J1772 is the North American standard that is used in CCS1.
masklinn 1y ago
> Anyone who follows Jeff will know he's US-based That was obvious from the article but given they specifically mentioned CCS2 bundled with the mess that is US charging I thought important to point that (anecdotally) the situations are quite distinct. Both in terms of charging hardware and payment.
Hamuko 1y ago
Go to your local Mitsubishi dealership in Europe and you will find the 2025 Outlander PHEV with a CHAdeMO plug. And I believe if you buy a pre-2019 Tesla Model S or Model X, you will have to deal with Tesla's own plug.
- formerly_proven 1y ago
  I'm guessing it skirts regulations by being a PHEV, since CCS2 is mandatory for DCFC otherwise. Skirting regulations is quite fitting for a PHEV, of course, as that is their raison d'etre.

ZeroGravitas 1y ago

It's not a lack of standards, it was an early proliferation of standards. Chademo is still standard in Japan. Also, given his comparison to the ease of the old way, in Europe at least it's fairly standard to know someone who has filled their hire car with diesel (or not diesel) by mistake. They have warning stickers on the filler flap because it happens so often. Meanwhile knowing someone who uses the inexplicably more expensive premium fuel option also offered is maybe rarer. Maybe EV-owning car reviewers should counter the FUD by pretending to be confused by these, always using the most expensive one in price comparisons and then breaking the car completely by using the wrong one during their test drive, like the many propaganda pieces put out about EVs.

masklinn 1y ago
A big difference is that if you go to a gas station you’ll have both (and possibly more). At least in Europe. So while you need to fill with the right fuel unless the pump is broken or the tanks are empty the fuel you need will be available. In the US, if you roll up to a random charging station you may or may not find a plug matching your car’s port.
- vel0city 1y ago
  As someone who has gone on many EV road trips over the years, I've never had an issue of rolling into a random charging station and not having the right kind of plug. All I've had to do is avoid Tesla stations, all the other brands have worked with my car. And now that I got a Tesla DC adapter that I keep in my trunk, I can do fast charging at a decent chunk of the Tesla stations.
- WorldMaker 1y ago
  NACS should help change that eventually (hopefully on the sooner side of eventually), as it wins the marketplace and chargers get slowly updated.
- soneil 1y ago
  I think the common mistake they’re alluding to is Europe and north America having conflicting standards for colour-coding the pumps. So here green is unleaded and black is diesel, which can catch American tourists unaware. (Especially so with language barriers, “sans plomb” in French is not intuitively petrol/gas/benzo)

stavros 1y ago

I can confirm that, here in Greece, everything is CCS2. There are also CHAdeMO ports here and there, but I don't know what car uses those. However, I haven't seen a station that takes card yet (or they don't advertise it). They all have their own app, which is inconvenient and a hassle.

fifilura 1y ago
> but I don't know what car uses those It is exactly this kind of Nissan Leaf. Japanese older generation cars. Enough around to still be available, but I think it is slowly disappearing. After that only 6kW (32A/single phase) charging will be available for these cars.
- floxy 1y ago
  There are fast charging adapters from CCS2 (and CCS1) to CHAdeMO: https://www.electway-charger.com/CCS2_to_CHAdeMO_adapter.html https://www.electway-charger.com/CCS2_to_CHAdeMO_adapter.htm...
  - tzs 1y ago
    Quite pricey though. That one is $1000 on Alibaba. The problem is the CCS and CHAdeMO is different protocols so an adapter has to be an active adapter. With CCS to CHAdeMO you need something to power the active electronics in the adapter. I've heard of some that do this by having a cable and plug on the adapter that plug into the car's 12 V port. I've heard of others that have a battery in the adapter. Compare to adapters between NACS and CCS. NACS and CCS do use the same protocol. They just have a different pinout. The adapters are passive and so can be a lot cheaper.

magicalhippo 1y ago

> And that the rental company (AVIS) does not provide an AC adapter Here in Norway, new EVs are no longer allowed to be sold with AC adapters, due to the potential fire hazard. At least that's the reason I got when I purchased my current EV. Perhaps a EU thing, wouldn't surprise me.

NewJazz 1y ago
Norway is not in the EU.
- magicalhippo 1y ago
  As a Norwegian I am well aware of that. However, we're part of the European Economic Area[1], and as such import a lot of EU regulation and standards. Mostly because we're required per the EEA terms, but also because some of those make sense. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Economic_Area https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Economic_Area
kingstnap 1y ago
This seems like the kind of regulation that causes more harm than it saves in anyone's house actually burning down. I did a cursory search and didn't find any EU reports of a house fire caused by a L1 charger. Sure you might burn a house down if you find one that has a plug which isn't correctly installed with loose connectors but the fire risk here wasn't the EV. Its the incorrectly installed wiring. You don't tell people to get rid of their fridges because some people might have forgetten to plug theirs in and therefore they could get food poisoning from spoiled food inside.
- spicybbq 1y ago
  It could also lead to people buying cheap, potentially defective chargers online instead of getting a more reliable manufacturer-included one.
- magicalhippo 1y ago
  I haven't been able to find concrete stories either, though these[1] statistics might be an indication. It shows there's a few EVs per year that lead to a building fire, though sadly nothing further about source. So could be something else like battery. That said there's been a campaign for several years trying to get rid of sockets for high current or permanent installations. I recently replaced both an electric water heater and mini split AC, and in both cases the previous appliance had used a socket and that was not allowed anymore. Could well be they're just being proactive. [1]: https://brannstatistikk.no/search?searchId=6EB5433C-AC28-4F6C-A96D-E1BCED8ABC6B&type=SEARCH_DEFINITION https://brannstatistikk.no/search?searchId=6EB5433C-AC28-4F6...

msh 1y ago

In many countries charging a car in a wallplug is a fire hazard (they are not rated for the heat).

throwaway-blaze 1y ago
This doesn't make sense. Wall plugs (like circuit breakers) are designed for a particular max amperage draw. If I have a 10A 120V circuit and wall plug, I can't charge my car at 8A? I have wall ovens that connect via a 50A circuit. Do I need to worry about fire hazards when I bake something for hours and hours?
- Volundr 1y ago
  Not an electrician, consult a real one for any actual electrical work or questions. It's complicated. Heat builds up over time. So for example your standard 15 amp breaker on a 14 gauge wire in the US is rated for 15 amps of intermittent use, but if you draw that continuously without letting the heat dissipate it becomes a fire hazard. IIRC circuits are generally rated for ~80% of their max load for continuous use, so that 15 amp circuit is considered good for 12 continuous. Or in your 10 amp example 8 should be ok. Your oven and circuit should be sized such that your long cooks aren't a concern, if you look at it's label you'll probably find it has a max draw of well below 50amps, but if you have actual doubts ask a professional.
  - Astronaut3315 1y ago
    Also not an electrician. A concern for high current outlets in the US, such as NEMA 14-50, is that they weren't necessarily designed for a large number of plug/unplug cycles. Typically you'd plug your stove in and leave it there for years to decades. If you use the same 14-50 outlet for car charging, which is not uncommon, the contacts can lose their grip over time. End users may want to take their mobile EVSE with them and incur cycles on the outlet. Properly installed but worn 14-50s have been known to melt or even catch fire under these conditions. End users should prefer to have their EVSE(s) hardwired or installed with a higher grade outlet like Hubbell or Bryant.
  - 1y ago