4 ms·

Strongest argument I see for Mistral is that it's European. Which isn't a very good argument.

by baalimago 1y ago

epolanski 1y ago
It's fast. Very fast. It's even faster than Gemini flash, which is fast.
- htrp 1y ago
  Is that due to usage (or lack thereof)?
drno123 1y ago
Also, speed.
mkreis 1y ago
It is in regards to the GDPR. If you're a European vendor and process PII, you must ensure some level of data protection. If you want to be on the safe side, you'll pick European providers instead of US hyperscalers (who have EU data centers, but are still US owned).
- apwell23 1y ago
  how does the 'memory' feature in mistral work wrt GDPR if i type in my personal information ?
  - dax_ 1y ago
    GDPR doesn't stop personal data being stored. It handles whom it can be shared with, when it has to be deleted, and only collect as much data as required. Also gives transparency to the users about their data use. And if I were to give over personal information to an AI company, then absolutely I'll prefer a company who actually complies with GDPR.
    - apwell23 1y ago
      yea i mean. how would they know how to remove it from 'memory' since they have no way to know with 100% accuracy which parts of my chart are PII.
      - swores 1y ago
        As a metaphor (well, a simile) think of it like if they were providing you with an FTP server or cloud storage. It's your choice what, if any, personal data you put into the system, and your responsibility to manage it, not theirs. As to what to do if you, with a customer's permission, put their PD (PII being an American term) into the system, and then get a request to delete it... I'm not sure, sorry I'm not an expert on LLMs. But it's your responsibility to not put the PD into the system unless you're confident that the company providing the services won't spread it around beyond your control, and your responsibility not to put it into the system unless you know how to manage it (including deleting it if and when required to) going forwards. Hopefully somebody else can come along and fill in my gaps on the options there - perhaps it's as simple as telling it "please remove all traces of X from memory", I don't know. edit: Of course, you could sign an agreement with an AI provider for them to be a "data controller", giving them responsibility for managing the data in a GDPR-compliant way, but I'm not aware of Mistral offering that option. edit 2: Given my non-expertise on LLMs, and my experience dealing with GDPR issues, my personal feeling is that I wouldn't be comfortable using any LLM for processing PD that wasn't entirely under my control, privately hosted. If I had something I wanted to do that required using SOTA models and therefore needed to use inference provided by a company like Mistral, I'd want either myself or my colleagues to understand a hell of a lot more about the subject than I currently do before going down that road. Thankfully it's not something I've had to dig into so far.
      - rsynnott 1y ago
        The cautious approach on their part would be to just delete the whole thing on any subject access deletion request.
        apwell23 1y ago
- mseri 1y ago
  True, but we should also remember that some services like the fast responses and the image generations (may?) run in US data centres also for Mistral. So that part of the data, in principle, may end up in the ends of other extra European countries. This said, I am really supportive of Mistral, like their work, and hope that they will get more recognition and more EU-centric institutional support.
OhioMan2943 1y ago
[flagged]
- apwell23 1y ago
  how you come you are helping ycombinator by posting here then?
  - saubeidl 1y ago
    It is good to provide viewpoints opposing the imperialist propaganda that is frequently being spread here.
    - apwell23 1y ago
      thank you for your service.
  - esafak 1y ago
    Activity here costs ycombinator too.
  - o_m 1y ago
    All or nothing mentally wont get you very far. You're digital device is probably made in China, but that doesn't mean you'll want to store your personal data in a Chinese data center. I try to choose European whenever possible and avoid or limit the use of American, Chinese, and Russian tech.
- loudmax 1y ago
  I'm glad to see a European company succeeding here, especially since Mistral has released open weights models. But you're deluding yourself if you think Mistral is any more moral than its American counterparts.
  - ljlolel 1y ago
    Or if Europe is
weweersdfsd 1y ago
It's a good argument if you care about privacy and geopolitical risk, like a dictator suddenly deciding that citizens of your country should no longer have access, or should be monitored when using the service.
rsynnott 1y ago
I mean, if the US had just had a succession of Obamas (or even an alternating succession of Obamas and GWBushes, really), then that wouldn't be a great argument. Given the current instability and capriciousness of the US regime, though... If you were a European company who wanted to use an LLM, it's going to at least factor into your risk planning.

Strongest argument I see for Mistral is that it's European. Which isn't a very good argument.

epolanski 1y ago

It's fast. Very fast. It's even faster than Gemini flash, which is fast.

htrp 1y ago
Is that due to usage (or lack thereof)?

drno123 1y ago

Also, speed.

mkreis 1y ago

It is in regards to the GDPR. If you're a European vendor and process PII, you must ensure some level of data protection. If you want to be on the safe side, you'll pick European providers instead of US hyperscalers (who have EU data centers, but are still US owned).

apwell23 1y ago
how does the 'memory' feature in mistral work wrt GDPR if i type in my personal information ?
- dax_ 1y ago
  GDPR doesn't stop personal data being stored. It handles whom it can be shared with, when it has to be deleted, and only collect as much data as required. Also gives transparency to the users about their data use. And if I were to give over personal information to an AI company, then absolutely I'll prefer a company who actually complies with GDPR.
  - apwell23 1y ago
    yea i mean. how would they know how to remove it from 'memory' since they have no way to know with 100% accuracy which parts of my chart are PII.
    - swores 1y ago
      As a metaphor (well, a simile) think of it like if they were providing you with an FTP server or cloud storage. It's your choice what, if any, personal data you put into the system, and your responsibility to manage it, not theirs. As to what to do if you, with a customer's permission, put their PD (PII being an American term) into the system, and then get a request to delete it... I'm not sure, sorry I'm not an expert on LLMs. But it's your responsibility to not put the PD into the system unless you're confident that the company providing the services won't spread it around beyond your control, and your responsibility not to put it into the system unless you know how to manage it (including deleting it if and when required to) going forwards. Hopefully somebody else can come along and fill in my gaps on the options there - perhaps it's as simple as telling it "please remove all traces of X from memory", I don't know. edit: Of course, you could sign an agreement with an AI provider for them to be a "data controller", giving them responsibility for managing the data in a GDPR-compliant way, but I'm not aware of Mistral offering that option. edit 2: Given my non-expertise on LLMs, and my experience dealing with GDPR issues, my personal feeling is that I wouldn't be comfortable using any LLM for processing PD that wasn't entirely under my control, privately hosted. If I had something I wanted to do that required using SOTA models and therefore needed to use inference provided by a company like Mistral, I'd want either myself or my colleagues to understand a hell of a lot more about the subject than I currently do before going down that road. Thankfully it's not something I've had to dig into so far.
    - rsynnott 1y ago
      The cautious approach on their part would be to just delete the whole thing on any subject access deletion request.
      - apwell23 1y ago
mseri 1y ago
True, but we should also remember that some services like the fast responses and the image generations (may?) run in US data centres also for Mistral. So that part of the data, in principle, may end up in the ends of other extra European countries. This said, I am really supportive of Mistral, like their work, and hope that they will get more recognition and more EU-centric institutional support.

OhioMan2943 1y ago

[flagged]

apwell23 1y ago
how you come you are helping ycombinator by posting here then?
- saubeidl 1y ago
  It is good to provide viewpoints opposing the imperialist propaganda that is frequently being spread here.
  - apwell23 1y ago
    thank you for your service.
- esafak 1y ago
  Activity here costs ycombinator too.
- o_m 1y ago
  All or nothing mentally wont get you very far. You're digital device is probably made in China, but that doesn't mean you'll want to store your personal data in a Chinese data center. I try to choose European whenever possible and avoid or limit the use of American, Chinese, and Russian tech.
loudmax 1y ago
I'm glad to see a European company succeeding here, especially since Mistral has released open weights models. But you're deluding yourself if you think Mistral is any more moral than its American counterparts.
- ljlolel 1y ago
  Or if Europe is

weweersdfsd 1y ago

It's a good argument if you care about privacy and geopolitical risk, like a dictator suddenly deciding that citizens of your country should no longer have access, or should be monitored when using the service.

rsynnott 1y ago

I mean, if the US had just had a succession of Obamas (or even an alternating succession of Obamas and GWBushes, really), then that wouldn't be a great argument. Given the current instability and capriciousness of the US regime, though... If you were a European company who wanted to use an LLM, it's going to at least factor into your risk planning.