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> Day to day life has been more or less the same across all of them. This is a wild take, unless you mean that in thw sense of wake up, eat, work and sleep kin

> Day to day life has been more or less the same across all of them. This is a wild take, unless you mean that in thw sense of wake up, eat, work and sleep kind of way. If I call the prime minister a criminal liar - worst that will happen is I get a defamation lawsuit. In authoritarian countries I go to a prison camp, and the neighbors are the one to report me. Even if I'm not political - if step on toes of people in party I can disappear and the rest will know not to ask questions.

ashtakeaway 1y ago
When U.S. neighbors report you to the police because you tell them to stop harassing you, you're in an HOA knowingly but without knowing it's absolutely turning authoritarian.
californical 1y ago
I’ve seen a couple Reddit threads recently where someone says something like “my neighbor has been doing [insert major nuisance here], I think they might not be citizens. I’m not in favor of ICE taking people away, but should I report them since it might solve [nuisance]?” The couple I’ve seen, the people aren’t that direct in their comments. And I’ve seen reports of citizens being arrested for a day or two while they’re investigated about whether they’re legal or not, before being released, all without warrants or even probable cause. Sure, not a prison camp, but far from what I’d expect in a free society. But the seeds of disappearing and detaining people without cause are already sprouting in the US among the general population, even if only among a tiny minority of shitty people. And that’s scary.
- queenkjuul 1y ago
  Oh that's tame, go to Facebook where boomers are falling over themselves tagging ICE in comments with their neighbors' names and addresses
- rafaelmn 1y ago
  OK but that's something that's beginning to happen in the US versus the default of authoritarian regimes - my point is that is not "pretty much the same" as OP put it. You might get physically attacked by some neanderthal if you're openly gay in public in the west, and in some middle eastern countries you get stoned on a public square - but hey we all unwind and have some fun when we can, so it's pretty much the same ?
  - cogman10 1y ago
    I believe the OP's point was that if you are in the ingroup, you can expect life to be pretty much equivalent to what you'd experience in the US. It's only if you are in the outgroup (like being gay) that you start to see state violence. This is pretty true of most authoritarian regimes. State violence isn't publicly broadcast or when it is it's usually framed as "fighting crime". To Godwin this, life for a non-jewish, non-communist, non-disabled citizen in 1940s germany was typical, even pleasant. I mean, heck, the german government at the time was taking the Jewish citizens property and giving it to favored classes. The deceptive part of an authoritarian regime is that the outgroup is almost always a minority. The number of people that experience outgroup treatment is almost always a small portion of the general population. Even in the strictest and most brutal governments like north korea, so long as you abide by state rules things are just fine. You can even go on vacations out of the country if you are obedient enough. A measure of government is how it treats internal state enemies. Crime exists everywhere, so the question is what's criminalized and how are criminals punished. Also importantly, what crimes does the state look away from if they hit political enemies.
    - rafaelmn 1y ago
      But the distinction is that in-group requires blind obedience in authoritarian countries. Half this forum is calling their political leaders idiots and will work (vote) against them, they are still in group. This is not a small distinction. Also the path upwards in society changes a lot.
      - cogman10 1y ago
- michaelmrose 1y ago
  They have argued in court against normal or indeed any due process; for stopping people purely based on race, language, and accent; against recognition of birthright citizenship and said that the next job after purging illegals is getting rid of the citizens who don't belong here. Remember the immigration czar said if he had his way only 100M white folks would remain. If those who are asserted without proof to be illegal can be sent to die in a foreign prison camp so can you.
queenkjuul 1y ago
Has this happened to you or someone you know or else how do you know better about what happens in other countries than someone who's lived there?
Barrin92 1y ago
>unless you mean that in thw sense of wake up, eat, work and sleep kind of way. this is what 99% of people spend 99% of their time on. If you give most people the choice between a place that has jobs, clean trains and where women can walk safely at night and one that looks like the Purge but you can insult the prime minister we can make a bet how people will vote with their feet. This is why China makes the claim that it is actually more democratic[1]. This is not merely propaganda. They are making the case that delivering material goods to people rather than exhausting yourself in some idiocracy-like circus of abstract rights is what should be the point of government. [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whole-process_people%27s_democracy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whole-process_people%27s_democ...
- wao0uuno 1y ago
  "f you give most people the choice between a place that has jobs, clean trains and where women can walk safely at night and one that looks like the Purge but you can insult the prime minister we can make a bet how people will vote with their feet." Why do we need to choose? Countries that have both exist.
- corimaith 1y ago
  >If you give most people the choice between a place that has jobs, clean trains and where women can walk safely at night and one that looks like the Purge but you can insult the prime minister we can make a bet how people will vote with their feet. Well, umm, far more people (rich, middle, poor) are emmigrating out of China with preference for Western Liberal Democracies than Westeners immigrating in. The thing is, in terms of job opportunities, the USA still far surpasses China for same amount of individual effort. And if I want to just live comfortably, Japan, Australia, Korea are all valid options. Like even the abysmally poor birthrate dosen't reflect on China with regards to the long viability of what you describe.
  - margalabargala 1y ago
    Plenty of people are emigrating from China to Singapore, which is not particularly less authoritarian.
singleshot_ 1y ago
It is worth noting that the EOP OSC is investigating Jack Smith and the DOJ is investigating Letitia James. This suggests the worst that could happen if you called the US President a criminal liar is that you would go to federal prison. I suppose the conclusion is that the US is an autocracy.
makeitdouble 1y ago
What would happen if you deeply insulted a cop at night during a routine check ? What would be the impact on your life of publicly calling names your company's CEO on social media ? You make it sound like a defamation lawsuit is peanuts, when you'd probably be fighting against an army of lawyer while you're unemployed, if you're in the US that definitely sounds like a life defining event. I also wonder if most authoritarian régimes even have prison camps ?
- nozzlegear 1y ago
  In the US you wouldn't even be subject to a defamation lawsuit in the first place. Such a thing is strictly un-American, we have every right to insult mock and insult our elected officials.
heavyset_go 1y ago
> If I call the prime minister a criminal liar - worst that will happen is I get a defamation lawsuit. In authoritarian countries I go to a prison camp, and the neighbors are the one to report me. Even if I'm not political - if step on toes of people in party I can disappear and the rest will know not to ask questions. Try implementing direct political action and see how Western governments treat you. You'll be deemed a terrorist, and if you're caught alive, you'll never see the sun again.
- rattyJ2 1y ago
  Define "direct political action"? Like, murder yes. But belgium has (too many) popular local initiatives that get picked up by The Government in some form.
  - heavyset_go 1y ago
    https://www.aclu.org/news/free-speech/rico-and-domestic-terrorism-charges-against-cop-city-activists-send-a-chilling-message https://www.aclu.org/news/free-speech/rico-and-domestic-terr...

ashtakeaway 1y ago

When U.S. neighbors report you to the police because you tell them to stop harassing you, you're in an HOA knowingly but without knowing it's absolutely turning authoritarian.

californical 1y ago

I’ve seen a couple Reddit threads recently where someone says something like “my neighbor has been doing [insert major nuisance here], I think they might not be citizens. I’m not in favor of ICE taking people away, but should I report them since it might solve [nuisance]?” The couple I’ve seen, the people aren’t that direct in their comments. And I’ve seen reports of citizens being arrested for a day or two while they’re investigated about whether they’re legal or not, before being released, all without warrants or even probable cause. Sure, not a prison camp, but far from what I’d expect in a free society. But the seeds of disappearing and detaining people without cause are already sprouting in the US among the general population, even if only among a tiny minority of shitty people. And that’s scary.

queenkjuul 1y ago
Oh that's tame, go to Facebook where boomers are falling over themselves tagging ICE in comments with their neighbors' names and addresses
rafaelmn 1y ago
OK but that's something that's beginning to happen in the US versus the default of authoritarian regimes - my point is that is not "pretty much the same" as OP put it. You might get physically attacked by some neanderthal if you're openly gay in public in the west, and in some middle eastern countries you get stoned on a public square - but hey we all unwind and have some fun when we can, so it's pretty much the same ?
- cogman10 1y ago
  I believe the OP's point was that if you are in the ingroup, you can expect life to be pretty much equivalent to what you'd experience in the US. It's only if you are in the outgroup (like being gay) that you start to see state violence. This is pretty true of most authoritarian regimes. State violence isn't publicly broadcast or when it is it's usually framed as "fighting crime". To Godwin this, life for a non-jewish, non-communist, non-disabled citizen in 1940s germany was typical, even pleasant. I mean, heck, the german government at the time was taking the Jewish citizens property and giving it to favored classes. The deceptive part of an authoritarian regime is that the outgroup is almost always a minority. The number of people that experience outgroup treatment is almost always a small portion of the general population. Even in the strictest and most brutal governments like north korea, so long as you abide by state rules things are just fine. You can even go on vacations out of the country if you are obedient enough. A measure of government is how it treats internal state enemies. Crime exists everywhere, so the question is what's criminalized and how are criminals punished. Also importantly, what crimes does the state look away from if they hit political enemies.
  - rafaelmn 1y ago
    But the distinction is that in-group requires blind obedience in authoritarian countries. Half this forum is calling their political leaders idiots and will work (vote) against them, they are still in group. This is not a small distinction. Also the path upwards in society changes a lot.
    - cogman10 1y ago
michaelmrose 1y ago
They have argued in court against normal or indeed any due process; for stopping people purely based on race, language, and accent; against recognition of birthright citizenship and said that the next job after purging illegals is getting rid of the citizens who don't belong here. Remember the immigration czar said if he had his way only 100M white folks would remain. If those who are asserted without proof to be illegal can be sent to die in a foreign prison camp so can you.

queenkjuul 1y ago

Has this happened to you or someone you know or else how do you know better about what happens in other countries than someone who's lived there?

Barrin92 1y ago

>unless you mean that in thw sense of wake up, eat, work and sleep kind of way. this is what 99% of people spend 99% of their time on. If you give most people the choice between a place that has jobs, clean trains and where women can walk safely at night and one that looks like the Purge but you can insult the prime minister we can make a bet how people will vote with their feet. This is why China makes the claim that it is actually more democratic[1]. This is not merely propaganda. They are making the case that delivering material goods to people rather than exhausting yourself in some idiocracy-like circus of abstract rights is what should be the point of government. [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whole-process_people%27s_democracy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whole-process_people%27s_democ...

wao0uuno 1y ago
"f you give most people the choice between a place that has jobs, clean trains and where women can walk safely at night and one that looks like the Purge but you can insult the prime minister we can make a bet how people will vote with their feet." Why do we need to choose? Countries that have both exist.
corimaith 1y ago
>If you give most people the choice between a place that has jobs, clean trains and where women can walk safely at night and one that looks like the Purge but you can insult the prime minister we can make a bet how people will vote with their feet. Well, umm, far more people (rich, middle, poor) are emmigrating out of China with preference for Western Liberal Democracies than Westeners immigrating in. The thing is, in terms of job opportunities, the USA still far surpasses China for same amount of individual effort. And if I want to just live comfortably, Japan, Australia, Korea are all valid options. Like even the abysmally poor birthrate dosen't reflect on China with regards to the long viability of what you describe.
- margalabargala 1y ago
  Plenty of people are emigrating from China to Singapore, which is not particularly less authoritarian.

singleshot_ 1y ago

It is worth noting that the EOP OSC is investigating Jack Smith and the DOJ is investigating Letitia James. This suggests the worst that could happen if you called the US President a criminal liar is that you would go to federal prison. I suppose the conclusion is that the US is an autocracy.

makeitdouble 1y ago

What would happen if you deeply insulted a cop at night during a routine check ? What would be the impact on your life of publicly calling names your company's CEO on social media ? You make it sound like a defamation lawsuit is peanuts, when you'd probably be fighting against an army of lawyer while you're unemployed, if you're in the US that definitely sounds like a life defining event. I also wonder if most authoritarian régimes even have prison camps ?

nozzlegear 1y ago
In the US you wouldn't even be subject to a defamation lawsuit in the first place. Such a thing is strictly un-American, we have every right to insult mock and insult our elected officials.

heavyset_go 1y ago

> If I call the prime minister a criminal liar - worst that will happen is I get a defamation lawsuit. In authoritarian countries I go to a prison camp, and the neighbors are the one to report me. Even if I'm not political - if step on toes of people in party I can disappear and the rest will know not to ask questions. Try implementing direct political action and see how Western governments treat you. You'll be deemed a terrorist, and if you're caught alive, you'll never see the sun again.

rattyJ2 1y ago
Define "direct political action"? Like, murder yes. But belgium has (too many) popular local initiatives that get picked up by The Government in some form.
- heavyset_go 1y ago
  https://www.aclu.org/news/free-speech/rico-and-domestic-terrorism-charges-against-cop-city-activists-send-a-chilling-message https://www.aclu.org/news/free-speech/rico-and-domestic-terr...