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Not criticising the article or the decision to buy a new washing machine (20 years is a long time), but just noting that the old machine was likely fixable. If

Not criticising the article or the decision to buy a new washing machine (20 years is a long time), but just noting that the old machine was likely fixable. If spare parts are even still available, that is. Whether it's deemed worth fixing is another matter. This must be the case for so many discarded appliances these days, especially underengineered ones with common issues. Also, not using the QR code protocols properly is a pet peeve of mine. I recently scanned one that was just a URL in plaintext (no web link protocol). If I was on an iPhone or using a simpler QR scanner, it would not work at all.

hn_throw_250903 1y ago
As someone who just replaced the bearings on a washing machine motor (carbon-commutator), I uhh… agree? The old machines are absolute workhorse beasts and they can work indefinitely as brand new with some maintenance here and there. However my expectation of people doing this are basically zero. So this is an anomalous post. By the time you write a blog post complaining about how a machine has a required IoT thing, you could have fixed a handful of issues short of soldering in new relays or triacs on the control board.
- hedora 1y ago
  Conterpoint: We had a new samsung washer dryer pair with a 90 day warranty; they advertise something like 10 years, but it is a lie. The electrolux in the article is probably similar. Anyway, it said it lost communication between two boards. I opened it up, checked the wiring harness, and found zero visible problems. I replaced both boards. Same error code. There are 3-4 other computers in that model, so I guess the next step was to replace all of them. The first two were already a substantial fraction of the price of a new washer, so the entire setup went to the dump (or, hopefully a parts reuse company, but I doubt it). Most technicians refuse to touch Samsung appliances because they are impossible to debug. Anyway, we replaced the pair with a brand that’s supposedly repairable. Fingers crossed. I wonder if they ever made front loaders that were affordable, energy efficient and reliable/repairable. There’s no reason these things shouldn’t last more than 20-30 years on average. Maybe there’s a market for such hypothetical old machines.
  - pbhjpbhj 1y ago
    >There’s no reason these things shouldn’t last more than 20-30 years on average. This is actually a difficult problem I feel. Misaligned incentives aside. How do you keep a company running if it is so good it captures the whole market in 15 years, but it takes 30 years before it's products need replacing? (This is a simplistic presentation of the issue, but I feel it's understandable enough to start to formulate ideas on how? You could think of lightbulbs that last a century if you like {would lack of competition inhibit progress??}.) I would love to buy Samsung's washer division, say, and work to make the machines invincible and completely repairable. Then use the profits to bootstrap other such projects. Eventually make the company cooperative, etc, maintain the longevity and work on reducing running costs, improving cleaning, etc.
    - hedora 1y ago
      I can think of a few solutions: - support model. You pay 1/10th the manufacturing cost per year. They immediately give you a new one if it fails. Profits are dictated by the difference between the real mean time to failure and ten years. “10” is set by law. - the price of the machine includes the cost of supplying the above service contract for 30 years, by law. The price of the machine therefore drops as the reliability increases. - all machines must be 100% recycled by the manufacturer, who also pays for environmental externalities. They pay a prorated multiple equal to the number of years under 10 that a machine is in service before replacement. - warranties must be 10 years and renewable, and must cover parts, labor, and installation, including things like modifications to cabinets and and legally required code improvements Not everyone would buy a new fancy machine the same year, so in steady state, they should be able to sell machines, just fewer per capita than today.
      - Terr_ 1y ago
        Hmmm, even if plans of that nature are not mandated to exist, I wonder if having a clear legal definition of them could help create a market anyway. > including things like modifications to cabinets Or perhaps require that the "plan" being purchased includes specs on min/max dimension and max weight. > the price of the machine includes the cost of supplying the above service contract for 30 years This seems like a recipe for bankruptcy though. For example, suppose Acme Appliances has a lot of customers, and then that country elects a crook as President who abruptly declared an (illegal?) import-tax (tariff) of one bajillion percent on all the spare parts.
- jorgen123 1y ago
  No need to go anonymous. I fondly remember my achievement of taking apart my washing machine to replace the drum bearing. Thanks to the interweb gods for making blogs and videos that helped me.
- Perz1val 1y ago
  I've read somewhere, that washing machines need to be run on hotter programs (at least 60°C) from time. This dissolves detergent accumulation on the bearing, slowing it's wear down. Apparently bearing failure is more common with modern washing machines as eco 30°C programs are used more often.
  - sokoloff 1y ago
    By the time detergent and water reaches the bearing, you've already lost. There is a seal that prevents that from happening and when that seal fails, the bearings will be not far behind. It is a grease-lubricated bearing; 60°C detergent-laden water would be slightly worse than 30°C detergent-laden water, but neither is helpful.
happens 1y ago
Do you know where I can read more about QR code protocols? I was under the impression that a simple URL (with http/s) is common, and I've never had it not on any device.
- rokkamokka 1y ago
  Same, am I making qr codes wrong? Like you, I've never seen a simple https link in a qr code fail
- wonger_ 1y ago
  Not OP, but I found this article recently: https://cubiclenate.com/2024/03/22/generate-qr-codes-in-the-terminal-with-qrencode/ https://cubiclenate.com/2024/03/22/generate-qr-codes-in-the-... Includes patterns for wifi credentials, calendar events, and a few more.
  - happens 1y ago
    There's no special URL there either, though. The parent specifically mentioned a protocol with semantics for "web links", hence my question.
xp84 1y ago
> QR properly I'm pretty sure that's the fault of terrible tooling being available to most people. No devices have built-in easy-to-find QR generating abilities, so to create a QR code most people end up searching the Web which is overrun with trashy URL-shortening-and-analytics services, freemium or paid, that wrap your link in their crap and make the URL expire or die with their fly-by-night website. Hackers know that it's possible and free to just make QR codes of the right type, and are able to find proper software to do it, but most people are throwing darts with the assistance of Google so they end up with crap usually.
kleiba 1y ago
Don't know about washing machines, let alone this particular one, but my reasoning for replacing a twenty year old machine is that a new one will hopefully use less energy and might be better for the environment thus?!
thisissomething 1y ago
> This must be the case for so many discarded appliances these days, especially underengineered ones with common issues. While it's true that lots of those old appliances are easily fixable, depending on how old they are it's better to replace due to other factors. I just recently replaced my 10 years old washing machine instead of fixing it. I was absolutely surprised by the difference. The newer one uses less electricity, less water, washes and dries in half the time, and is absolutely silent. I only hope it lasts as long as the old one.
tomayac 1y ago
[Author here] The quote from the repair guy was 270€ for the motor replacement. The new machine was €450. We ended up paying the repair guy €59 for coming, detecting the error, and telling us to let it go. We had the same repair guy exchange the carbon brushes earlier in the year. We really did not want a new machine, but, hey…

hn_throw_250903 1y ago

As someone who just replaced the bearings on a washing machine motor (carbon-commutator), I uhh… agree? The old machines are absolute workhorse beasts and they can work indefinitely as brand new with some maintenance here and there. However my expectation of people doing this are basically zero. So this is an anomalous post. By the time you write a blog post complaining about how a machine has a required IoT thing, you could have fixed a handful of issues short of soldering in new relays or triacs on the control board.

hedora 1y ago
Conterpoint: We had a new samsung washer dryer pair with a 90 day warranty; they advertise something like 10 years, but it is a lie. The electrolux in the article is probably similar. Anyway, it said it lost communication between two boards. I opened it up, checked the wiring harness, and found zero visible problems. I replaced both boards. Same error code. There are 3-4 other computers in that model, so I guess the next step was to replace all of them. The first two were already a substantial fraction of the price of a new washer, so the entire setup went to the dump (or, hopefully a parts reuse company, but I doubt it). Most technicians refuse to touch Samsung appliances because they are impossible to debug. Anyway, we replaced the pair with a brand that’s supposedly repairable. Fingers crossed. I wonder if they ever made front loaders that were affordable, energy efficient and reliable/repairable. There’s no reason these things shouldn’t last more than 20-30 years on average. Maybe there’s a market for such hypothetical old machines.
- pbhjpbhj 1y ago
  >There’s no reason these things shouldn’t last more than 20-30 years on average. This is actually a difficult problem I feel. Misaligned incentives aside. How do you keep a company running if it is so good it captures the whole market in 15 years, but it takes 30 years before it's products need replacing? (This is a simplistic presentation of the issue, but I feel it's understandable enough to start to formulate ideas on how? You could think of lightbulbs that last a century if you like {would lack of competition inhibit progress??}.) I would love to buy Samsung's washer division, say, and work to make the machines invincible and completely repairable. Then use the profits to bootstrap other such projects. Eventually make the company cooperative, etc, maintain the longevity and work on reducing running costs, improving cleaning, etc.
  - hedora 1y ago
    I can think of a few solutions: - support model. You pay 1/10th the manufacturing cost per year. They immediately give you a new one if it fails. Profits are dictated by the difference between the real mean time to failure and ten years. “10” is set by law. - the price of the machine includes the cost of supplying the above service contract for 30 years, by law. The price of the machine therefore drops as the reliability increases. - all machines must be 100% recycled by the manufacturer, who also pays for environmental externalities. They pay a prorated multiple equal to the number of years under 10 that a machine is in service before replacement. - warranties must be 10 years and renewable, and must cover parts, labor, and installation, including things like modifications to cabinets and and legally required code improvements Not everyone would buy a new fancy machine the same year, so in steady state, they should be able to sell machines, just fewer per capita than today.
    - Terr_ 1y ago
      Hmmm, even if plans of that nature are not mandated to exist, I wonder if having a clear legal definition of them could help create a market anyway. > including things like modifications to cabinets Or perhaps require that the "plan" being purchased includes specs on min/max dimension and max weight. > the price of the machine includes the cost of supplying the above service contract for 30 years This seems like a recipe for bankruptcy though. For example, suppose Acme Appliances has a lot of customers, and then that country elects a crook as President who abruptly declared an (illegal?) import-tax (tariff) of one bajillion percent on all the spare parts.
jorgen123 1y ago
No need to go anonymous. I fondly remember my achievement of taking apart my washing machine to replace the drum bearing. Thanks to the interweb gods for making blogs and videos that helped me.
Perz1val 1y ago
I've read somewhere, that washing machines need to be run on hotter programs (at least 60°C) from time. This dissolves detergent accumulation on the bearing, slowing it's wear down. Apparently bearing failure is more common with modern washing machines as eco 30°C programs are used more often.
- sokoloff 1y ago
  By the time detergent and water reaches the bearing, you've already lost. There is a seal that prevents that from happening and when that seal fails, the bearings will be not far behind. It is a grease-lubricated bearing; 60°C detergent-laden water would be slightly worse than 30°C detergent-laden water, but neither is helpful.

happens 1y ago

Do you know where I can read more about QR code protocols? I was under the impression that a simple URL (with http/s) is common, and I've never had it not on any device.

rokkamokka 1y ago
Same, am I making qr codes wrong? Like you, I've never seen a simple https link in a qr code fail
wonger_ 1y ago
Not OP, but I found this article recently: https://cubiclenate.com/2024/03/22/generate-qr-codes-in-the-terminal-with-qrencode/ https://cubiclenate.com/2024/03/22/generate-qr-codes-in-the-... Includes patterns for wifi credentials, calendar events, and a few more.
- happens 1y ago
  There's no special URL there either, though. The parent specifically mentioned a protocol with semantics for "web links", hence my question.

xp84 1y ago

> QR properly I'm pretty sure that's the fault of terrible tooling being available to most people. No devices have built-in easy-to-find QR generating abilities, so to create a QR code most people end up searching the Web which is overrun with trashy URL-shortening-and-analytics services, freemium or paid, that wrap your link in their crap and make the URL expire or die with their fly-by-night website. Hackers know that it's possible and free to just make QR codes of the right type, and are able to find proper software to do it, but most people are throwing darts with the assistance of Google so they end up with crap usually.

kleiba 1y ago

Don't know about washing machines, let alone this particular one, but my reasoning for replacing a twenty year old machine is that a new one will hopefully use less energy and might be better for the environment thus?!

thisissomething 1y ago

> This must be the case for so many discarded appliances these days, especially underengineered ones with common issues. While it's true that lots of those old appliances are easily fixable, depending on how old they are it's better to replace due to other factors. I just recently replaced my 10 years old washing machine instead of fixing it. I was absolutely surprised by the difference. The newer one uses less electricity, less water, washes and dries in half the time, and is absolutely silent. I only hope it lasts as long as the old one.

tomayac 1y ago

[Author here] The quote from the repair guy was 270€ for the motor replacement. The new machine was €450. We ended up paying the repair guy €59 for coming, detecting the error, and telling us to let it go. We had the same repair guy exchange the carbon brushes earlier in the year. We really did not want a new machine, but, hey…