7 ms·

Is there actually any evidence that caffeine is bad for kids? From the article, it looks like the impetus for this change is concern from teachers, not from sci

Is there actually any evidence that caffeine is bad for kids? From the article, it looks like the impetus for this change is concern from teachers, not from scientific research regarding the impact of high doses of caffeine on children under 16.

boxed 1y ago
In Sweden a bunch of teenagers died from drinking red bull and vodka, and politicians raved and limited sale of energy drinks to people under 16. Of course, it was almost certainly 99% the alcohol, and the rest 1% could be equally blamed on having a broken heart, or a hamburger, or candy as on the energy drinks.
- sniffers 1y ago
  Mixing caffeine and alcohol is genuinely and generally considered more dangerous. Caffeine masks the effects of intoxication, so you don't act as drunk nor feel as drunk at the same blood alcohol level. It was almost certainly the alcohol that was lethal, but caffeine (especially in high doses) absolutely contributed to increased lethality when paired with alcohol.
  - gilleain 1y ago
    Buckfast, for example. (Or vodka/redbull, or vodka/Irn-Bru, or espresso martini ...)
  - bluedino 1y ago
    Remember 4Loko?
  - boxed 1y ago
    Well they didn't even mention caffeine of course, because that's also too popular.
boredhedgehog 1y ago
And if there is, wouldn't it be more important to restrict coffee and tea?
- dnel 1y ago
  if the UK had a written constitution, the right to drink tea would be damn near the top of it.
- sniffers 1y ago
  Coffee is approximately the same as an energy drink (very approximately), but how many kids can down a pint or three of bitter coffee? The flavor is enough to keep it relatively self regulating.
  - mrweasel 1y ago
    It's also not marketed in a way that appeals to children and teenagers.
    - p1mrx 1y ago
      > [Coffee is] not marketed in a way that appeals to children and teenagers. Thanks to AI, it could be: https://g.co/gemini/share/3e1cb15c52aa https://g.co/gemini/share/3e1cb15c52aa
  - xnx 1y ago
    Starbucks and Dunkin Donuts (I'm assuming there's some UK equivalent) sell what's effectively coffee milkshakes.
    - sniffers 1y ago
      They have much lower caffeine. About half an energy drink. And they are way more expensive. No kids out there drinking six grande frappucinos during their school day. That's like $40, lol.
  - ndsipa_pomu 1y ago
brnt 1y ago
> Is there actually any evidence that caffeine is bad for kids? Is a compound known for its primary side effect, anxiety, bad for people at the most anxious time in their lives, children? I guess some need things to be spelled out in full.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
- fluoridation 1y ago
  Kids, just in general, are the most anxious people? No, I don't think so. If you'd gone with restlessness that might have been true, but then I guess that wouldn't have been such a compelling argument.
- singleshot_ 1y ago
  > most anxious time in their lives, children? Why assume the future won’t be even more stressful for this latest generation of young people?
- euLh7SM5HDFY 1y ago
  Well parents were talking about sugar rush for decades, while no research supports existence of such effect (hyperactivity) in children.
- insane_dreamer 1y ago
  Yes. It affects neural development and has been shown to correlate negatively with cognitive functions in children. There are studies on this.
mrweasel 1y ago
The Danish Technical Universities Food institute had some research suggesting that around 40% of children experienced sleep issues and restlessness from drinking to much caffeine. [1] The risk associated with to much caffeine according to the same study is: Disturbed heart rhythm, high blood pressure, palpitations, shortness of breath, stomach ache, nausea, anxiety, nervousness, trouble sleeping, and in the worst case, cardiac arrest. It's not that children can't safely drink an energy drink, it's just that some teenagers might down can after can and the "safe" amount of caffeine is less than 1L of energy drink per day (which already seems like a lot). 1) https://www.food.dtu.dk/-/media/institutter/foedevareinstituttet/publikationer/pub-2014/e-artikel-mange-boern-og-unge-faar-for-meget-koffein-fra-energidrikke-2014.pdf?la=da&hash=5BC0C70011439B3BE17C0BA3CF2CB2C31253D48A https://www.food.dtu.dk/-/media/institutter/foedevareinstitu...
Bender 1y ago
I can't speak to the caffeine but that is by far not the worst aspects of energy drinks. - The drinks have an addictive property due to caffeine and many of these drinks are full of sugar causing the consumer to continuously consume sugar. Nobody should be consuming added sugar especially not kids who's brains are still developing. They do not need insulin resistance yet another fun topic. - The excessive B vitamins in the drinks are the cheap low quality inactive forms and worse there are only a couple different vitamins. This is a fun rabbit hole to research. Adding even one inactive B vitamin in large quantities can shut down the conversion of all inactive B vitamins in the liver and in some cases the kidneys and can lead to a B vitamin deficiency, somewhat ironically. B vitamins are required for energy production. Shutting down the conversion process can lead to people feeling tired and weak, thinking they need more energy drinks... This is a vicious cycle that can only be remedied by a healthy diet, exercise and sleep. Excessive energy drink consumption can interrupt or lower the quality of sleep. A lack of good sleep interrupts the healing process which every person requires or they start taking age related damage earlier and faster leading to more diseases and vulnerabilities. This rabbit hole goes many layers deeper and would require writing a book and this is even before talking about how this exacerbates all the effects of drugs that doctors have shamefully prescribed to kids and adults.
- aquariusDue 1y ago
  And here I thought that at least I was getting my B vitamins in. That's just awful, thanks for sharing.
  - Bender 1y ago
    thanks for sharing. You are quite welcome. I hope this gets some people curious enough to research. Even if they were the active form there are typically only two or three of them. A healthy diet is the optimal method to get all the B vitamins or at least the 13 critical B vitamins but if ones lifestyle is preventing this one can get them from a B-50 complex. A healthy diet should be preferred when possible.
- gilleain 1y ago
  Thinks : "What is an inactive form of a B-vitamin?". Some examples: B1 - Thiamin [Inactive] vs Thiamine Diphosphate [Active]. B2 - Flavin Mononucleotide (FMN) vs Flavin Adenine Dinucleotide (FAD). B12 - Cyanocobalamine vs Methylcobalamin. Interesting. So the idea is that an excess of (say) FMN would block conversion to FAD?
matei88 1y ago
In Romania, in 2024, after a 17-year-old the previous year and a 13-year-old died from consuming too many energy drinks, authorities decided to ban their sale to minors
mvdtnz 1y ago
The UK doesn't base their legislation on evidence. As long as they can froth up a segment of their population, that's enough for them.
ndsipa_pomu 1y ago
> Is there actually any evidence that caffeine is bad for kids It's complicated as there can be beneficial effects as well. The issue is likely with the dosage as typical tea drinking hasn't seemed to cause any issues and us brits have been drinking tea for a long time. I've heard anecdotes of extreme coffee drinking (multiple espressos over a short time) causing heart palpitations, but that's not common as excessive coffee tends to make people jittery (c.f. Futurama episode where Fry drinks 100 coffees). Energy drinks have high levels of caffeine and high levels of sugar and tend to be chugged, so they're likely to excessive doses. Found this review is likely relevant and in my view, the sleep disruption is a red flag for a healthy lifestyle: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7177467/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7177467/
EmptyCoffeeCup 1y ago
I think just about every school in the land has one or two kids in each year who spend their lunch money on Monster/Red Bull (Caffeine is addictive - they cannot help it). Sadly, there is often only enough money for caffeine or food: So you end up with children who are living off Sugar & Caffeine. They look as healthy as you'd expect. This legislation is as much about preventing such scenarios as it is about the effects of the energy drinks themselves - (not that it'll work, but that's a another point entirely) As for the tea/coffee points - I don't think any school allows access to a kettle - it is already a moot point.

boxed 1y ago

In Sweden a bunch of teenagers died from drinking red bull and vodka, and politicians raved and limited sale of energy drinks to people under 16. Of course, it was almost certainly 99% the alcohol, and the rest 1% could be equally blamed on having a broken heart, or a hamburger, or candy as on the energy drinks.

sniffers 1y ago
Mixing caffeine and alcohol is genuinely and generally considered more dangerous. Caffeine masks the effects of intoxication, so you don't act as drunk nor feel as drunk at the same blood alcohol level. It was almost certainly the alcohol that was lethal, but caffeine (especially in high doses) absolutely contributed to increased lethality when paired with alcohol.
- gilleain 1y ago
  Buckfast, for example. (Or vodka/redbull, or vodka/Irn-Bru, or espresso martini ...)
- bluedino 1y ago
  Remember 4Loko?
- boxed 1y ago
  Well they didn't even mention caffeine of course, because that's also too popular.

boredhedgehog 1y ago

And if there is, wouldn't it be more important to restrict coffee and tea?

dnel 1y ago
if the UK had a written constitution, the right to drink tea would be damn near the top of it.
sniffers 1y ago
Coffee is approximately the same as an energy drink (very approximately), but how many kids can down a pint or three of bitter coffee? The flavor is enough to keep it relatively self regulating.
- mrweasel 1y ago
  It's also not marketed in a way that appeals to children and teenagers.
  - p1mrx 1y ago
    > [Coffee is] not marketed in a way that appeals to children and teenagers. Thanks to AI, it could be: https://g.co/gemini/share/3e1cb15c52aa https://g.co/gemini/share/3e1cb15c52aa
- xnx 1y ago
  Starbucks and Dunkin Donuts (I'm assuming there's some UK equivalent) sell what's effectively coffee milkshakes.
  - sniffers 1y ago
    They have much lower caffeine. About half an energy drink. And they are way more expensive. No kids out there drinking six grande frappucinos during their school day. That's like $40, lol.
- ndsipa_pomu 1y ago

brnt 1y ago

> Is there actually any evidence that caffeine is bad for kids? Is a compound known for its primary side effect, anxiety, bad for people at the most anxious time in their lives, children? I guess some need things to be spelled out in full.

deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
fluoridation 1y ago
Kids, just in general, are the most anxious people? No, I don't think so. If you'd gone with restlessness that might have been true, but then I guess that wouldn't have been such a compelling argument.
singleshot_ 1y ago
> most anxious time in their lives, children? Why assume the future won’t be even more stressful for this latest generation of young people?
euLh7SM5HDFY 1y ago
Well parents were talking about sugar rush for decades, while no research supports existence of such effect (hyperactivity) in children.
insane_dreamer 1y ago
Yes. It affects neural development and has been shown to correlate negatively with cognitive functions in children. There are studies on this.

mrweasel 1y ago

The Danish Technical Universities Food institute had some research suggesting that around 40% of children experienced sleep issues and restlessness from drinking to much caffeine. [1] The risk associated with to much caffeine according to the same study is: Disturbed heart rhythm, high blood pressure, palpitations, shortness of breath, stomach ache, nausea, anxiety, nervousness, trouble sleeping, and in the worst case, cardiac arrest. It's not that children can't safely drink an energy drink, it's just that some teenagers might down can after can and the "safe" amount of caffeine is less than 1L of energy drink per day (which already seems like a lot). 1) https://www.food.dtu.dk/-/media/institutter/foedevareinstituttet/publikationer/pub-2014/e-artikel-mange-boern-og-unge-faar-for-meget-koffein-fra-energidrikke-2014.pdf?la=da&hash=5BC0C70011439B3BE17C0BA3CF2CB2C31253D48A https://www.food.dtu.dk/-/media/institutter/foedevareinstitu...

Bender 1y ago

I can't speak to the caffeine but that is by far not the worst aspects of energy drinks. - The drinks have an addictive property due to caffeine and many of these drinks are full of sugar causing the consumer to continuously consume sugar. Nobody should be consuming added sugar especially not kids who's brains are still developing. They do not need insulin resistance yet another fun topic. - The excessive B vitamins in the drinks are the cheap low quality inactive forms and worse there are only a couple different vitamins. This is a fun rabbit hole to research. Adding even one inactive B vitamin in large quantities can shut down the conversion of all inactive B vitamins in the liver and in some cases the kidneys and can lead to a B vitamin deficiency, somewhat ironically. B vitamins are required for energy production. Shutting down the conversion process can lead to people feeling tired and weak, thinking they need more energy drinks... This is a vicious cycle that can only be remedied by a healthy diet, exercise and sleep. Excessive energy drink consumption can interrupt or lower the quality of sleep. A lack of good sleep interrupts the healing process which every person requires or they start taking age related damage earlier and faster leading to more diseases and vulnerabilities. This rabbit hole goes many layers deeper and would require writing a book and this is even before talking about how this exacerbates all the effects of drugs that doctors have shamefully prescribed to kids and adults.

aquariusDue 1y ago
And here I thought that at least I was getting my B vitamins in. That's just awful, thanks for sharing.
- Bender 1y ago
  thanks for sharing. You are quite welcome. I hope this gets some people curious enough to research. Even if they were the active form there are typically only two or three of them. A healthy diet is the optimal method to get all the B vitamins or at least the 13 critical B vitamins but if ones lifestyle is preventing this one can get them from a B-50 complex. A healthy diet should be preferred when possible.
gilleain 1y ago
Thinks : "What is an inactive form of a B-vitamin?". Some examples: B1 - Thiamin [Inactive] vs Thiamine Diphosphate [Active]. B2 - Flavin Mononucleotide (FMN) vs Flavin Adenine Dinucleotide (FAD). B12 - Cyanocobalamine vs Methylcobalamin. Interesting. So the idea is that an excess of (say) FMN would block conversion to FAD?

matei88 1y ago

In Romania, in 2024, after a 17-year-old the previous year and a 13-year-old died from consuming too many energy drinks, authorities decided to ban their sale to minors

mvdtnz 1y ago

The UK doesn't base their legislation on evidence. As long as they can froth up a segment of their population, that's enough for them.

ndsipa_pomu 1y ago

> Is there actually any evidence that caffeine is bad for kids It's complicated as there can be beneficial effects as well. The issue is likely with the dosage as typical tea drinking hasn't seemed to cause any issues and us brits have been drinking tea for a long time. I've heard anecdotes of extreme coffee drinking (multiple espressos over a short time) causing heart palpitations, but that's not common as excessive coffee tends to make people jittery (c.f. Futurama episode where Fry drinks 100 coffees). Energy drinks have high levels of caffeine and high levels of sugar and tend to be chugged, so they're likely to excessive doses. Found this review is likely relevant and in my view, the sleep disruption is a red flag for a healthy lifestyle: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7177467/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7177467/

EmptyCoffeeCup 1y ago

I think just about every school in the land has one or two kids in each year who spend their lunch money on Monster/Red Bull (Caffeine is addictive - they cannot help it). Sadly, there is often only enough money for caffeine or food: So you end up with children who are living off Sugar & Caffeine. They look as healthy as you'd expect. This legislation is as much about preventing such scenarios as it is about the effects of the energy drinks themselves - (not that it'll work, but that's a another point entirely) As for the tea/coffee points - I don't think any school allows access to a kettle - it is already a moot point.