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No place in children's hands: <16s in UK to be banned from buying energy drinks
- rogerkirkness 1y agoBased on various studies about things like acetaminophen toxicity, effects of screens on nervous system and eye health, effects of eating ultra processed foods, etc. we know that anything that harms kids tends to harm adults, just less acutely. I think realistically energy drinks are just not healthy for humans. But it's interesting how we moralize harms to kids while enabling them for adults.
- barnabee 1y agoIt’s reasonable to allow adults to choose to harm themselves. It’s far less reasonable to allow companies to advertise and promote that harm as if it’s exciting and beneficial to anyone.
- kiba 1y agoReasonable? It's still not reasonable from an individual perspective, but good luck enforcing a draconian rule about not drinking alcohol. The harm outweigh the benefit. But at the same time, there's basically no benefit to consuming alcoholic beverages that could be achieved some other ways,
- IAmBroom 1y ago> It's still not reasonable from an individual perspective You actually believe that? Adults shouldn't have the right to get tattooed, get spanked in the bedroom, drink alcohol, eat cake when they're obese?
- kiba 1y agoIt's pretty damn clear as to how bad alcohol is. People went to jail, and lives ended because of alcohol. The downside is huge, arguably overwhelmingly not a net positive for humanity. Make of that what you will. Note that I didn't say we shouldn't have the right to put alcohol in our bodies. There are also negative consequences to prohibition, as we have seen with the drug war. It's a disaster.
- forgetfreeman 1y agoWhile it seems clear that permitting adults to do what suits them is broadly reasonable it is less clear that it is reasonable to permit business models that profit from individuals harming themselves with or without marketing.
- bapak 1y ago> it's interesting how we moralize harms to kids while enabling them for adults I don't find that interesting. It applies to anything that adults do, even things as basic and "positive" as having a job. Working 8 hours at 8? Absolutely not. Working 8 hours at 18? Double it and give it to the next person.
- fluoridation 1y agoIf you don't want to drink energy drinks then don't do it. Don't tell others what to do.
- anthk 1y agoGood luck enjoying diabetus before your 50's.
- fluoridation 1y agoMy condemnation does not imply my consumption of energy drinks. I tried a couple and found them distasteful. There are more pleasant ways of getting caffeine.
- symlinkk 1y agoMost are zero sugar
- SirFatty 1y agoIf you don't want to shoot heroine then don't do it. Don't tell others what to do.
- fluoridation 1y agoI am against drug prohibition, yes.
- kiba 1y agoIt's perfectly reasonable to be against both drug prohibition and drug abuse.
- fluoridation 1y agoCorrect, but since the topic is banning consumption, not abuse, it's not really relevant.
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- sniffers 1y agoI think the thinking is something along the lines of adults can understand the consequences better. I actually am not certain I buy that, as adults rarely understand the consequences of their actions, broadly.
- forgetfreeman 1y agoI'd counter that an individual who routinely fails to understand the consequences of their actions is by definition not an adult. Pondering the full implications of this are left as an exercise.
- fluoridation 1y ago"Understanding the consequences of one's actions" has never been part of the definition of "adult". Generally speaking, a mammal reaches adulthood when it stops growing.
- forgetfreeman 1y agoYour belief that comprehension of consequences isn't part of the definition of "adult" suggests you are young and presents a stark commentary. Past generations considered this character the bedrock that adult behavior rested upon. Additionally, casually tossing out the term "mammal", as though human behavior lends itself to comparison with the activities of groundhogs (etc) seems like a bit of a non sequitur.
- fluoridation 1y agoWikipedia: >An adult is an animal that has reached full growth. The biological definition of adult is an organism that has reached sexual maturity and thus capable of reproduction. >In the human context, the term adult has meanings associated with social and legal concepts. In contrast to a non-adult or "minor", a legal adult is a person who has attained the age of majority and is therefore regarded as independent, self-sufficient, and responsible. They may also be regarded as "majors". The typical age of attaining adulthood for humans is 18 years, although definition may vary by country. Merriam-Webster: >(adjective) fully developed and mature >(noun) one that is adult; especially: a human being after an age (such as 21) specified by law Your definition of "adult" is one no one uses. >Past generations considered this character the bedrock that adult behavior rested upon. Even if I grant that that's true, why should I care? Past generations killed infants in fields to benefit crops, and captured survivors of battles to enslave them. Appeals to tradition are uncompelling.
- hippo22 1y agoIs there actually any evidence that caffeine is bad for kids? From the article, it looks like the impetus for this change is concern from teachers, not from scientific research regarding the impact of high doses of caffeine on children under 16.
- boxed 1y agoIn Sweden a bunch of teenagers died from drinking red bull and vodka, and politicians raved and limited sale of energy drinks to people under 16. Of course, it was almost certainly 99% the alcohol, and the rest 1% could be equally blamed on having a broken heart, or a hamburger, or candy as on the energy drinks.
- sniffers 1y agoMixing caffeine and alcohol is genuinely and generally considered more dangerous. Caffeine masks the effects of intoxication, so you don't act as drunk nor feel as drunk at the same blood alcohol level. It was almost certainly the alcohol that was lethal, but caffeine (especially in high doses) absolutely contributed to increased lethality when paired with alcohol.
- boredhedgehog 1y agoAnd if there is, wouldn't it be more important to restrict coffee and tea?
- duxup 1y agoIs there any science about the amounts of caffeine and kids under 16? Or data on the amount of kids under 16 actually doing this thing?
- mrweasel 1y agoThere's a Danish study that suggests that 99% of people ages 10 - 35 consume caffeine on a daily basis. Which seems insane. Energy drinks are the main source of caffeine for those age 10 - 14 and 10% of those exceeds the recommended limits. For ages 15 - 17 it's 20%.
- IAmBroom 1y agoYes, there's LOTS of research. Here's a starter: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7177467/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7177467/
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- Pooge 1y agoI think it's a good change. I'm not necessarily in favor of prohibition, but drinks—at least sugary ones—are engineered to be addictive. And no, diet doesn't cut it.
- piyuv 1y agoThis doesn’t solve the underlying issue: heavy marketing towards minors, using all available channels. Sure, heavy sugary/caffeinated drinks are bad for minors, but regulating this at the sales level feels like playing cat/mouse game with the industry.
- IAmBroom 1y agoTwo points: 1. Marketing towards illegal markets seems foolish, and 2. Marketing towards illegal markets sets the company up for easy failure at court, in many conceivable lawsuits.
- jaggs 1y agoI think what most commenters are missing is the fact that we now live in an age where it is trivially easy to heavily market to kids on social media like tiktok etc. I think this is similar to why we ban sales of cigarettes to the under aged. It's just common sense no? To those who advocate for zero drug prohibition, can we imagine a world where there was no drug prohibition and kids could be marketed fentanyl on TikTok at will? Obviously this is an extreme, but it's an example of the kind of problems our society now faces? (For some reason the catastrophic problems China had with opium in the late 1800s springs to mind).
- vintermann 1y agoThe alcohol industry is very comfortable with age limits. The more the better (e.g. beer and wine at 18 but liquor at 21). The reason is that they understand that this enshrines alcohol as a maturity symbol. It ensures that you're seen as immature for not drinking. An alcohol lobbying group around here made posters with a huge foaming glass of beer and the text "over 18? Prove it!". Nominally it was about showing ID, but I think youth got the intended message, and it wasn't about showing ID. Alcohol advertising is forbidden, but profit finds a way. I see no reason to think energy drink restrictions will be different.
- fluoridation 1y agoSo what are you saying? That there should be no marketing, no alcohol, or no age restrictions?
- vintermann 1y agoI think there should be as few different age limits as possible. Put everything at 18, or possibly 16. If there's something you really think there's good reason to have different age limits on, implement it differently (e.g, say that you can only take a driver's license two years after you started driving lessons, and let the limit for taking driving lessons be at the one age limit.) The exact age of majority is largely arbitrary. Fine-masked age limits suggests it's not. Also, one of the reasons we have an age of majority is that kids are easy to manipulate. Age limits and the carrot of "maturity" can be abused to do just that, manipulate kids. I think we should discourage it. Things which have no possible cachet as a maturity symbol can still have other age limits if they really must (e.g, the age at which you can be decide which of your parents to live with if they're divorced is usually well below the age of majority, and that's fine). As for alcohol, I think there should be harsh limits on private profit. I'd let you drink whatever you want, but not profit from whatever you want. Redistribute profits from alcohol sales (and also gambling, tobacco and other things where most of the profit comes from self-destructive use) in such a way that no one has an incentive to sell one more unit. Then the problems will take care of themselves, is my belief. Also, I think profit restrictions are much more palatable to the actual public than restrictions on alcohol itself, which people often chafe at. This makes profit restrictions more democratically sustainable.
- haunter 1y agoHungary banned energy drinks for everyone under 18, basically the same category as tobacco products now https://hungarytoday.hu/no-more-energy-drink-parliament-bans-sales-for-under-18s/ https://hungarytoday.hu/no-more-energy-drink-parliament-bans...
- Simulacra 1y agoMaybe a good thing. Less developed systems with the various ingredients, sugar, etc .. given the problems adults have had it… I think this could be a good thing
- daft_pink 1y agoMeanwhile in America, Prime hydration drinks included in lunchable knockoff kits at every target - Lunchly