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I've been sort of thinking the same. The Context Dependency Injection stuff was so great, allowed creating things on demand and in different scopes of demands s

I've been sort of thinking the same. The Context Dependency Injection stuff was so great, allowed creating things on demand and in different scopes of demands so easily. Jax-rs annotations mostly worked fine & had sufficient hooks to make API writing pretty easy. I never really was super concerned about verbosity. LLM's should help here yes. Maven was an interesting blessing and a curse. Theres so many plugins that do so many various things. It took me a lot of my Java career before I stopped trying to find good docs and references & started just diving into the source to see how plugins worked: it freed me from a lot of feelings that everything was mystical & special & showed me many plugins were quite direct & simple, with a few outliers that did ludicrously many things (usually in a bad way). the top post is pretty vague about what people think they might want or enjoy from Java today. I'd be curious to know more specifics about what folks think are highlights. Also for the record I left around when java 8 was finalizing, IIRC? Long time.

MBCook 1y ago
To whatever degree I dislike Maven, I look at the JS ecosystem that I also work in and miss having such a well built thoughtfully designed tool that most everyone uses.
zahlman 1y ago
> The Context Dependency Injection stuff was so great, allowed creating things on demand and in different scopes of demands so easily. OP is currently working in Python, so that seems to me like a wild justification to go back to Java. Elsewhere ITT someone is praising Java for having the ability to keep large codebases organized and comprehensible. But my experience of Java was that the overall boilerplate, focus on classes, manifest typing, functions not being first-class objects, etc. make the codebase large. Then it gets ballooned even further with systems designed to introduce dynamism into a fundamentally static language. As I've pointed out in other threads before, "dependency injection" in a dynamic language is approximately a fancy term for "passing an argument to a function". Oh, but it already looks for a global and you don't want to rewrite it for some reason (even though your compilation step is trivial)? That can be addressed with a pretty small decorator. It seems like a lot of why these frameworks exist in Java is so you can reuse implementations of "design patterns" that fix problems Python doesn't have in the first place. By the way (since I just checked it out of curiousity), the code for the Spring framework is comparable in length to the entire Python standard library, including tests.

MBCook 1y ago

To whatever degree I dislike Maven, I look at the JS ecosystem that I also work in and miss having such a well built thoughtfully designed tool that most everyone uses.

zahlman 1y ago

> The Context Dependency Injection stuff was so great, allowed creating things on demand and in different scopes of demands so easily. OP is currently working in Python, so that seems to me like a wild justification to go back to Java. Elsewhere ITT someone is praising Java for having the ability to keep large codebases organized and comprehensible. But my experience of Java was that the overall boilerplate, focus on classes, manifest typing, functions not being first-class objects, etc. make the codebase large. Then it gets ballooned even further with systems designed to introduce dynamism into a fundamentally static language. As I've pointed out in other threads before, "dependency injection" in a dynamic language is approximately a fancy term for "passing an argument to a function". Oh, but it already looks for a global and you don't want to rewrite it for some reason (even though your compilation step is trivial)? That can be addressed with a pretty small decorator. It seems like a lot of why these frameworks exist in Java is so you can reuse implementations of "design patterns" that fix problems Python doesn't have in the first place. By the way (since I just checked it out of curiousity), the code for the Spring framework is comparable in length to the entire Python standard library, including tests.