4 ms·

The complete lack of pushback from traditional conservatives against Trump's constant overreach and his complete disregard for basic civil liberties and the rul

The complete lack of pushback from traditional conservatives against Trump's constant overreach and his complete disregard for basic civil liberties and the rule of law continues to shock me.

aYsY4dDQ2NrcNzA 1y ago
It was always just a mask.
PieTime 1y ago
I’ve asked myself why my grandparents did not try to overthrow their Nazi regime. They were not the most immoral people on the surface, they just viewed their actions happening as the only way of survival. I think the answer lies in seeing what really happening instead of what’s portrayed as happening on their propaganda outlets. Articles like this start to transition people away from supporting fascism if they are believed.
- onetimeusename 1y ago
  [flagged]
  - krapp 1y ago
    >There was large scale mass migration into the country that appeared to be facilitated by the last administration. Did you forget to specify "illegal" migration in regards to this conspiracy theory or did the mask just slip here?
    - anonfordays 1y ago
      No need to be any more specific. The only mass migration into the country over the past decade that appeared to be facilitated by the last admimistration was an illegal one.
    - like_any_other 1y ago
      You think this is an argument about paperwork?
      - krapp 1y ago
        Obviously not. I just want people to actually say what they mean for once and stop pretending it is an argument about paperwork.
  - like_any_other 1y ago
    The mass migration has been going since before 1986, when Republicans gave amnesty to illegal immigrants, on the promise of getting better border control [1]. They didn't get it, nor was legal immigration reduced in any way, nor did the Republican party itself fight too hard for either. No surprise voters felt betrayed. California passed a referendum to stop literally funding illegal immigration, only for it to be judicially overturned [2]. Again and again and again, any kind of limit on immigration, no matter how popular, was rejected. Is it any surprise it came to this? [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_Reform_and_Control_Act_of_1986 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_Reform_and_Control... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1994_California_Proposition_187 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1994_California_Proposition_18...
  - mcphage 1y ago
    [flagged]
  - standardUser 1y ago
    [flagged]
- standardUser 1y ago
  I will say that, having grown up in the 80's and 90's far removed from the fascist states of yesteryear, it was always baffling how Western nations succumbed so completely to authoritarianism. I am not longer baffled.
  - yoyohello13 1y ago
    I’m seeing it happen in real time and am still baffled. I realize now there are groups of people with perceptions of reality so different from mine they are basically akin to an alien species.
zem 1y ago
"traditional" conservatives are mostly people who were sufficiently concerned with appearances to not say the quiet parts out loud. I have no doubt they support trump's agenda, if not the uncouthness of his methods.
mathiaspoint 1y ago
[flagged]
- GuinansEyebrows 1y ago
  truly i implore you to read Dark Money by Jane Mayer if you think there was any real power behind the libertarian movement that wasn't explicitly directed at consolidating disparate rightwing movements into the monolith of the modern GOP.
- mrinterweb 1y ago
  Acceptance is embracing a fascist autocracy? "Hmmm. Libertarianism didn't resonate with liberals. Guess we will just go full on fascist.", is how I interpreted that.
  - mathiaspoint 1y ago
    [flagged]
    - mcphage 1y ago
      > now we're just campaigning for exactly what we want What is it exactly that you want?
    - yoyohello13 1y ago
      What exactly is the "this" that you want? Sending the military to occupy American cities isn't going to achieve anything positive and is probably the most "anti-american" thing I can think of.
- standardUser 1y ago
  Hardly. There has never been a president more hostile to libertarian ideology than Donald Trump.
- nemo44x 1y ago
  They’re just so used to not having opposition. Even less than that. Just being able to blatantly walk all over their opposition and poke them in the eye. Their opposition assumed good will but after decades of being deceived they’ve finally decided to resist. And this resistance is a new feeling for the left. They’re continuing their tried and true tactics but they aren’t working anymore.
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
GuinansEyebrows 1y ago
i think the memetic idea of "traditional conservatism" doesn't really exist in any meaningful historical context. that type of label has always been a mask for ethnonationalism, whether or not every conservative voter actually believed in ethnonationalist ideals.
exolymph 1y ago
~No one pushes back on abuses of power by their own side. (Not literally no one, but few enough people that they effectively don't matter.)
dragonwriter 1y ago
> The complete lack of pushback from traditional conservatives against Trump's constant overreach and his complete disregard for basic civil liberties and the rule of law continues to shock me. There hasn't actually been a complete lack of such pushback from traditional conservatives; the surviving icons of traditional conservatism have often been vocal anti-Trumpers. What it turns out is that, while some of the former luminaries are still alive and active, there are, as far as political impact goes, no traditional conservatives left.
xracy 1y ago
Stop being shocked, and start pushing back. Everyone is looking around for someone else to acknowledge that something is up (like a baby that just hit its head), and everyone needs to start crying. People in the US do not have due process rights. I can confidently say this, because if anyone doesn't have due process rights, then no one has due process rights.
- standardUser 1y ago
  > if anyone doesn't have due process rights, then no one has due process rights. By your logic, no one has due process rights in this country.
  - xracy 1y ago
    Yeah... I said that? Idk what country you're in, but I definitely said that immediately before the thing you're quoting from me

The complete lack of pushback from traditional conservatives against Trump's constant overreach and his complete disregard for basic civil liberties and the rule of law continues to shock me.

aYsY4dDQ2NrcNzA 1y ago

It was always just a mask.

PieTime 1y ago

I’ve asked myself why my grandparents did not try to overthrow their Nazi regime. They were not the most immoral people on the surface, they just viewed their actions happening as the only way of survival. I think the answer lies in seeing what really happening instead of what’s portrayed as happening on their propaganda outlets. Articles like this start to transition people away from supporting fascism if they are believed.

onetimeusename 1y ago
[flagged]
- krapp 1y ago
  >There was large scale mass migration into the country that appeared to be facilitated by the last administration. Did you forget to specify "illegal" migration in regards to this conspiracy theory or did the mask just slip here?
  - anonfordays 1y ago
    No need to be any more specific. The only mass migration into the country over the past decade that appeared to be facilitated by the last admimistration was an illegal one.
  - like_any_other 1y ago
    You think this is an argument about paperwork?
    - krapp 1y ago
      Obviously not. I just want people to actually say what they mean for once and stop pretending it is an argument about paperwork.
- like_any_other 1y ago
  The mass migration has been going since before 1986, when Republicans gave amnesty to illegal immigrants, on the promise of getting better border control [1]. They didn't get it, nor was legal immigration reduced in any way, nor did the Republican party itself fight too hard for either. No surprise voters felt betrayed. California passed a referendum to stop literally funding illegal immigration, only for it to be judicially overturned [2]. Again and again and again, any kind of limit on immigration, no matter how popular, was rejected. Is it any surprise it came to this? [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_Reform_and_Control_Act_of_1986 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_Reform_and_Control... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1994_California_Proposition_187 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1994_California_Proposition_18...
- mcphage 1y ago
  [flagged]
- standardUser 1y ago
  [flagged]
standardUser 1y ago
I will say that, having grown up in the 80's and 90's far removed from the fascist states of yesteryear, it was always baffling how Western nations succumbed so completely to authoritarianism. I am not longer baffled.
- yoyohello13 1y ago
  I’m seeing it happen in real time and am still baffled. I realize now there are groups of people with perceptions of reality so different from mine they are basically akin to an alien species.

zem 1y ago

"traditional" conservatives are mostly people who were sufficiently concerned with appearances to not say the quiet parts out loud. I have no doubt they support trump's agenda, if not the uncouthness of his methods.

mathiaspoint 1y ago

[flagged]

GuinansEyebrows 1y ago
truly i implore you to read Dark Money by Jane Mayer if you think there was any real power behind the libertarian movement that wasn't explicitly directed at consolidating disparate rightwing movements into the monolith of the modern GOP.
mrinterweb 1y ago
Acceptance is embracing a fascist autocracy? "Hmmm. Libertarianism didn't resonate with liberals. Guess we will just go full on fascist.", is how I interpreted that.
- mathiaspoint 1y ago
  [flagged]
  - mcphage 1y ago
    > now we're just campaigning for exactly what we want What is it exactly that you want?
  - yoyohello13 1y ago
    What exactly is the "this" that you want? Sending the military to occupy American cities isn't going to achieve anything positive and is probably the most "anti-american" thing I can think of.
standardUser 1y ago
Hardly. There has never been a president more hostile to libertarian ideology than Donald Trump.
nemo44x 1y ago
They’re just so used to not having opposition. Even less than that. Just being able to blatantly walk all over their opposition and poke them in the eye. Their opposition assumed good will but after decades of being deceived they’ve finally decided to resist. And this resistance is a new feeling for the left. They’re continuing their tried and true tactics but they aren’t working anymore.

deleted 1y ago

[deleted]

GuinansEyebrows 1y ago

i think the memetic idea of "traditional conservatism" doesn't really exist in any meaningful historical context. that type of label has always been a mask for ethnonationalism, whether or not every conservative voter actually believed in ethnonationalist ideals.

exolymph 1y ago

~No one pushes back on abuses of power by their own side. (Not literally no one, but few enough people that they effectively don't matter.)

dragonwriter 1y ago

> The complete lack of pushback from traditional conservatives against Trump's constant overreach and his complete disregard for basic civil liberties and the rule of law continues to shock me. There hasn't actually been a complete lack of such pushback from traditional conservatives; the surviving icons of traditional conservatism have often been vocal anti-Trumpers. What it turns out is that, while some of the former luminaries are still alive and active, there are, as far as political impact goes, no traditional conservatives left.

xracy 1y ago

Stop being shocked, and start pushing back. Everyone is looking around for someone else to acknowledge that something is up (like a baby that just hit its head), and everyone needs to start crying. People in the US do not have due process rights. I can confidently say this, because if anyone doesn't have due process rights, then no one has due process rights.

standardUser 1y ago
> if anyone doesn't have due process rights, then no one has due process rights. By your logic, no one has due process rights in this country.
- xracy 1y ago
  Yeah... I said that? Idk what country you're in, but I definitely said that immediately before the thing you're quoting from me