4 ms·

Neat concept. I had to dig through a lot of the docs before I could get a good grasp of exactly how this works, though. It's an OS that mounts/searches all driv

Neat concept. I had to dig through a lot of the docs before I could get a good grasp of exactly how this works, though. It's an OS that mounts/searches all drives (such as an SD card reader) for the first available KZI file which is a format that describes how a specific game is run (the runtime, additional gamescope options, etc). While the idea of essentially mimicking old school carts by having a dedicated SD card per game is intriguing, I'm not sure I personally see the appeal of something like this over a Steam Deck + EmuDeck installed - particularly since you'll probably need to build/buy a miniPC that is compatible with Kazeta. Another concern would be controller compatibility, from what I can see only one controller is listed as being officially supported (8Bitdo Ultimate 2C Wireless Controller). https://github.com/kazetaos/kazeta/wiki/Requirements https://github.com/kazetaos/kazeta/wiki/Requirements

vanderZwan 1y ago
> It's an OS that mounts/searches all drives (such as an SD card reader) for the first available KZI file which is a format that describes how a specific game is run (the runtime, additional gamescope options, etc). I hope it also supports putting multiple games on one cartridge and choosing between them at boot time? Don't see a reason to waste a multi-gigabyte SD card on a single ROM of a few megabytes.
- anal_reactor 1y ago
  Practicality is exactly why we abandoned the old designs.
  - stuaxo 1y ago
    Yep, but we didn't realise what we were throwing out. Having a tangible thing somehow makes it mean more, think about picking out a record or CD to play and leaving it to play as opposed to scrolling through infinite music to choose what to play.
    - tines 1y ago
      Thank you. Why do so few people understand this?
      - anal_reactor 1y ago
        Because it's not fucking practical. You do it once, it's cool. You do it twice, all right. You do it three times, it's annoying. Most people live in tiny apartments and are overworked, when they have a moment to play games, the "click to run" experience is vastly superior over searching for something in a mountain of plastic that could've been a chair or a plant instead. I think that what you really want is going back to pre-internet times when access to media was limited, so every single piece of media had value. You had one casette, you'd listen to it back to back because there was nothing else. Nowadays media feel meaningless not because they're not put on physical plastic, but because you have infinite access to it at all times. Some people argue that you could try to restrict yourself to some specific subset, but deep down you'll always know it's just a theatre. Since I accepted the fact that I hate most of humanity and 99% of commercial products are slop, I started valuing things much more. The rush of "wow I found something that isn't slop" mimics the old feeling of getting a new disc.
        andrepd 1y ago
        > Because it's not fucking practical. You do it once, it's cool. You do it twice, all right. You do it three times, it's annoying. Most people live in tiny apartments and are overworked, when they have a moment to play games, the "click to run" experience is vastly superior over searching for something in a mountain of plastic that could've been a chair or a plant instead. There's already every single mainstream platform offering what you want. This is clearly a niche product serving a niche usecase: recreating the experience of physical carts like an SNES or a PS2 or a Gameboy. Some people, necessarily a minority, enjoy this. Why are you so angry? I don't get it.
        jamespo 1y ago
        Yes, they seem very angry for someone living in a digital paradise
- deadbabe 1y ago
  It’s more romantic to have each game on individual cards that you can touch and feel rather than cramming a bunch of them onto one card. When you hold a game cart in your hand, you can close your eyes and imagine holding that entire game’s essence in the palm of your hand, you can see it and picture it, and in this sense it’s no longer just bits of data, but rather an entire world just waiting to be explored. These people who don’t want carts and just want everything downloaded straight to a device and packed in an NVME can fuck off, I see now that it was this kind of min/max thinking that killed a lot of the fun rituals that made the gaming experience more magical. The practicality and instant gratification wasn’t worth the trade off, that’s why games suck today and we get micro-transactions and subscriptions shoved down our throats.
  - probably_wrong 1y ago
    It would be 90s accurate, though, as pirate multi-game cartridges [1] were very common (and very cheap) at the time. Same goes for the Atari 2600, with the difference that the game selection was made with physical switches instead of a menu screen. [1] https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ullO54qsP_8 https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ullO54qsP_8
  - electroglyph 1y ago
    i can't say i totally agree with you, but i love your opinion nonetheless =)
  - GlacierFox 1y ago
    I have fond memories of looking at all my GameBoy Advance games stacked up on the shelf as a kid now and then. The idea that there's a little world in each individual one I can dive in to brought great joy. I totally get you. Sure there were custom carts back then to stuff 100 games into one cart but I didnt ever feel like getting one even back then, sucked a little of the joy out of it for me.
  - npteljes 1y ago
    That's a flawed premise, as games totally don't suck today. There are so many to choose from, and people create new ones all the time, experiences where you can clearly feel that they poured their hearts and sweat into it. For me, the practicality of gaming doesn't get in the way of the same enjoyment that you described feeling. I love it that I can have my favorites and current ones loaded in a single console, which I hold exactly as dearly as you described with the game cartridge. To me, most games are experiences though, and therefore I have no use for the media, packaging etc after I have experienced it. When I want to refresh my memories, I rather look at the screenshots and videos I took of the game, rather than the box or cartridge, as the media I created is much more personal.
- cout 1y ago
  Is it still possible to buy smaller SD cards in bulk, maybe 8mb or 16mb? The smallest I could find was 128mb for about the same price as a 2gb card. While I like the idea of physically separate cards for each game, at $10 per card it seems economically limiting.
  - fragmede 1y ago
    Given storage sizes, the cartridge is symbolic. Use NFC tags and a reader and just load the appropriate ROM off disk.
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]
  - jnaina 1y ago
    <$3 bucks for 16GB on AliExpress
    - grugagag 1y ago
      Still feels like a waste to put 4mb game on it
      - gravitronic 1y ago
        Don't worry, it's actually a 4MB SD card with a fake sticker
        grugagag 1y ago
        Im sure there are such rippoffs, I’ve heard of them but they were still way bigger than a game cart. I like the idea of physical cartriges/media for games, let’s see how this catches on.
  - ofrzeta 1y ago
    The smallest I could find was 128MB (see adjacent thread https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45101932 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45101932) on Aliexpress but you are right, they are comparatively expensive. A source for those obsolete cards would be great. Have they all been shredded by now? Or is there a forgotten shipping container somewhere? :)
Yokolos 1y ago
I've imitated something like this for my Steam Deck by just keeping a bunch of games on sdcard and switching them out when I want to play something else. Sure, it's technically a complete waste of time and I don't suggest you do or anybody else do it. But I have fun doing it and that's all that matters in this case that has no effect on anybody else. I find it odd when people on Hacker News say "but why?" Because I can, dude, and it makes me happy. On that note, this project sounds awesome to me.
- belthesar 1y ago
  “But why” is an ever present question on Hacker News, with the announcement of Dropbox being rebutted with “But why, we have FTP”. Not every idea that rethinks an existing system will have the same merit or success of course, but I think it’s fair that sometimes a potential user will say that they think their existing system is fine and that others should adopt it vs consider something new.
  - JohnKemeny 1y ago
    Is Dropbox still in use, though?
    - wk_end 1y ago
      Not as little as you'd think, not as widely as it once was. But the reasons for that have little to do with the "but why?"s thrown at it when it was first promoted.
      - roughly 1y ago
        The “why” is effectively that they got Sherlocked by every platform owner out there - Dropbox’s declining usage isn’t an indication they were wrong.
    - senkora 1y ago
      I still use it (and pay for it) because it is the only option that offers a Linux client.
Saline9515 1y ago
It's nice if you have kids in a no-tv house and want to allow them to experience retro-gaming while being able to control what is played, and how. Scarcity has it virtues, too.
- unixhero 1y ago
  >Scarcity has it virtues, too. I would even wager to say; Without it, we're doomed.
  - mystraline 1y ago
    We have enough food production to feed 30 billion people, and throw away massive amounts. We have plenty of land and housing could be inexpensive or free for all. Sunlight, wind, and tidal is literally 1kW/1m^2 free energy. Pirates already can watch anything, listen to petabytes of music, access nearly every book including academic papers. We really could be living in post-scarcity world. But its the oligarchs and billionaires who want to keep the spoils for themselves. And in the USA alone 8 billionaires own as much resources as the bottom 60% does. Simply put, material scarcity is a fucked mindset. And we could grow past that - in fact I think we have to.
    - integralid 1y ago
      But we, at least in western society, want much more than just food. Even assuming that zero food waste is realistic. Land is pretty cheap, except when you want to live in a city, especially big. Which is what most people want. Sunlight is free, solar panel manufacturing and maintenance is not. Pirates watch things for free, but the people that pay fund the production. Most expensive things are expensive because they require labor, which is expensive. And people tend to actually want expensive things, even if they don't strictly require them - either as a status symbol, or just to make their life easier (a dishwasher or a vacuum cleaner is not required to live, but most people can't imagine living without one). Simply put, I think you either greatly oversimplify the problem and handwave the problem by just blaming "billionaires" for everything, or I don't understand your point properly.
  - 1y ago
Chris2048 1y ago
You could also just have the games already on the console/pc and the cartridge is just a "key" needed to play it?
- wolrah 1y ago
  This is the idea behind Zaparoo (https://zaparoo.org/ https://zaparoo.org/) which uses NFC tags that can be put in to your preferred form (card, cartridge, token, etc.) and used to select and launch games. It was originally built for use with the MiSTer FPGA hardware emulation platform but has since expanded to support a variety of software emulation platforms and apparently even actual C64s via a flash cart.

vanderZwan 1y ago

> It's an OS that mounts/searches all drives (such as an SD card reader) for the first available KZI file which is a format that describes how a specific game is run (the runtime, additional gamescope options, etc). I hope it also supports putting multiple games on one cartridge and choosing between them at boot time? Don't see a reason to waste a multi-gigabyte SD card on a single ROM of a few megabytes.

anal_reactor 1y ago
Practicality is exactly why we abandoned the old designs.
- stuaxo 1y ago
  Yep, but we didn't realise what we were throwing out. Having a tangible thing somehow makes it mean more, think about picking out a record or CD to play and leaving it to play as opposed to scrolling through infinite music to choose what to play.
  - tines 1y ago
    Thank you. Why do so few people understand this?
    - anal_reactor 1y ago
      Because it's not fucking practical. You do it once, it's cool. You do it twice, all right. You do it three times, it's annoying. Most people live in tiny apartments and are overworked, when they have a moment to play games, the "click to run" experience is vastly superior over searching for something in a mountain of plastic that could've been a chair or a plant instead. I think that what you really want is going back to pre-internet times when access to media was limited, so every single piece of media had value. You had one casette, you'd listen to it back to back because there was nothing else. Nowadays media feel meaningless not because they're not put on physical plastic, but because you have infinite access to it at all times. Some people argue that you could try to restrict yourself to some specific subset, but deep down you'll always know it's just a theatre. Since I accepted the fact that I hate most of humanity and 99% of commercial products are slop, I started valuing things much more. The rush of "wow I found something that isn't slop" mimics the old feeling of getting a new disc.
      - andrepd 1y ago
        > Because it's not fucking practical. You do it once, it's cool. You do it twice, all right. You do it three times, it's annoying. Most people live in tiny apartments and are overworked, when they have a moment to play games, the "click to run" experience is vastly superior over searching for something in a mountain of plastic that could've been a chair or a plant instead. There's already every single mainstream platform offering what you want. This is clearly a niche product serving a niche usecase: recreating the experience of physical carts like an SNES or a PS2 or a Gameboy. Some people, necessarily a minority, enjoy this. Why are you so angry? I don't get it.
        jamespo 1y ago
        Yes, they seem very angry for someone living in a digital paradise
deadbabe 1y ago
It’s more romantic to have each game on individual cards that you can touch and feel rather than cramming a bunch of them onto one card. When you hold a game cart in your hand, you can close your eyes and imagine holding that entire game’s essence in the palm of your hand, you can see it and picture it, and in this sense it’s no longer just bits of data, but rather an entire world just waiting to be explored. These people who don’t want carts and just want everything downloaded straight to a device and packed in an NVME can fuck off, I see now that it was this kind of min/max thinking that killed a lot of the fun rituals that made the gaming experience more magical. The practicality and instant gratification wasn’t worth the trade off, that’s why games suck today and we get micro-transactions and subscriptions shoved down our throats.
- probably_wrong 1y ago
  It would be 90s accurate, though, as pirate multi-game cartridges [1] were very common (and very cheap) at the time. Same goes for the Atari 2600, with the difference that the game selection was made with physical switches instead of a menu screen. [1] https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ullO54qsP_8 https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ullO54qsP_8
- electroglyph 1y ago
  i can't say i totally agree with you, but i love your opinion nonetheless =)
- GlacierFox 1y ago
  I have fond memories of looking at all my GameBoy Advance games stacked up on the shelf as a kid now and then. The idea that there's a little world in each individual one I can dive in to brought great joy. I totally get you. Sure there were custom carts back then to stuff 100 games into one cart but I didnt ever feel like getting one even back then, sucked a little of the joy out of it for me.
- npteljes 1y ago
  That's a flawed premise, as games totally don't suck today. There are so many to choose from, and people create new ones all the time, experiences where you can clearly feel that they poured their hearts and sweat into it. For me, the practicality of gaming doesn't get in the way of the same enjoyment that you described feeling. I love it that I can have my favorites and current ones loaded in a single console, which I hold exactly as dearly as you described with the game cartridge. To me, most games are experiences though, and therefore I have no use for the media, packaging etc after I have experienced it. When I want to refresh my memories, I rather look at the screenshots and videos I took of the game, rather than the box or cartridge, as the media I created is much more personal.
cout 1y ago
Is it still possible to buy smaller SD cards in bulk, maybe 8mb or 16mb? The smallest I could find was 128mb for about the same price as a 2gb card. While I like the idea of physically separate cards for each game, at $10 per card it seems economically limiting.
- fragmede 1y ago
  Given storage sizes, the cartridge is symbolic. Use NFC tags and a reader and just load the appropriate ROM off disk.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
- jnaina 1y ago
  <$3 bucks for 16GB on AliExpress
  - grugagag 1y ago
    Still feels like a waste to put 4mb game on it
    - gravitronic 1y ago
      Don't worry, it's actually a 4MB SD card with a fake sticker
      - grugagag 1y ago
        Im sure there are such rippoffs, I’ve heard of them but they were still way bigger than a game cart. I like the idea of physical cartriges/media for games, let’s see how this catches on.
- ofrzeta 1y ago
  The smallest I could find was 128MB (see adjacent thread https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45101932 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45101932) on Aliexpress but you are right, they are comparatively expensive. A source for those obsolete cards would be great. Have they all been shredded by now? Or is there a forgotten shipping container somewhere? :)

Yokolos 1y ago

I've imitated something like this for my Steam Deck by just keeping a bunch of games on sdcard and switching them out when I want to play something else. Sure, it's technically a complete waste of time and I don't suggest you do or anybody else do it. But I have fun doing it and that's all that matters in this case that has no effect on anybody else. I find it odd when people on Hacker News say "but why?" Because I can, dude, and it makes me happy. On that note, this project sounds awesome to me.

belthesar 1y ago
“But why” is an ever present question on Hacker News, with the announcement of Dropbox being rebutted with “But why, we have FTP”. Not every idea that rethinks an existing system will have the same merit or success of course, but I think it’s fair that sometimes a potential user will say that they think their existing system is fine and that others should adopt it vs consider something new.
- JohnKemeny 1y ago
  Is Dropbox still in use, though?
  - wk_end 1y ago
    Not as little as you'd think, not as widely as it once was. But the reasons for that have little to do with the "but why?"s thrown at it when it was first promoted.
    - roughly 1y ago
      The “why” is effectively that they got Sherlocked by every platform owner out there - Dropbox’s declining usage isn’t an indication they were wrong.
  - senkora 1y ago
    I still use it (and pay for it) because it is the only option that offers a Linux client.

Saline9515 1y ago

It's nice if you have kids in a no-tv house and want to allow them to experience retro-gaming while being able to control what is played, and how. Scarcity has it virtues, too.

unixhero 1y ago
>Scarcity has it virtues, too. I would even wager to say; Without it, we're doomed.
- mystraline 1y ago
  We have enough food production to feed 30 billion people, and throw away massive amounts. We have plenty of land and housing could be inexpensive or free for all. Sunlight, wind, and tidal is literally 1kW/1m^2 free energy. Pirates already can watch anything, listen to petabytes of music, access nearly every book including academic papers. We really could be living in post-scarcity world. But its the oligarchs and billionaires who want to keep the spoils for themselves. And in the USA alone 8 billionaires own as much resources as the bottom 60% does. Simply put, material scarcity is a fucked mindset. And we could grow past that - in fact I think we have to.
  - integralid 1y ago
    But we, at least in western society, want much more than just food. Even assuming that zero food waste is realistic. Land is pretty cheap, except when you want to live in a city, especially big. Which is what most people want. Sunlight is free, solar panel manufacturing and maintenance is not. Pirates watch things for free, but the people that pay fund the production. Most expensive things are expensive because they require labor, which is expensive. And people tend to actually want expensive things, even if they don't strictly require them - either as a status symbol, or just to make their life easier (a dishwasher or a vacuum cleaner is not required to live, but most people can't imagine living without one). Simply put, I think you either greatly oversimplify the problem and handwave the problem by just blaming "billionaires" for everything, or I don't understand your point properly.
- 1y ago

Chris2048 1y ago

You could also just have the games already on the console/pc and the cartridge is just a "key" needed to play it?

wolrah 1y ago
This is the idea behind Zaparoo (https://zaparoo.org/ https://zaparoo.org/) which uses NFC tags that can be put in to your preferred form (card, cartridge, token, etc.) and used to select and launch games. It was originally built for use with the MiSTer FPGA hardware emulation platform but has since expanded to support a variety of software emulation platforms and apparently even actual C64s via a flash cart.