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> why would they provoke a war after reaching their goal of having a state? Because having their own state isnt their goal, the destruction of zionism is. > T

> why would they provoke a war after reaching their goal of having a state? Because having their own state isnt their goal, the destruction of zionism is. > The limit to Israel's actions is not its morality or its military means, it's the international opinion. Israel has nukes and is self sufficient. International opinion only limits them until they decide dealing with the palestinians is more important, at which point they can team up with china. Really the only limit to Israels actions are what the israeli people will vote for. I dont really get your obsession with the rabid animal theme. We know that israel cares more about civilians than the palestinian government because israel was content to let the palestinians chill until oct 7th while hamas spent the previous two decades bombarding tel aviv. Hamas has mafia level control over gaza. Thats just a fact, why does that make us racist for pointing out? They use human shields, it is obvious that they do not care about their populace. We dont have to be racist to point out that hamas fucking sucks and has done nothing but make life worse for everyone in gaza. That doesnt make the israeli government good, its just a reminder that things will probably continue to be terrible in the region

throw310822 1y ago
> Because having their own state isnt their goal, the destruction of zionism is Oh of course, these are not people- they don't want their own good, they want to destroy others. Is this what you mean? > israel was content to let the palestinians chill until oct 7th while hamas spent the previous two decades bombarding tel aviv You obviously don't know that Israel bombarded Gaza killing 1800 people in 2008/9, 430 people between 2010 and 2104, 2270 people in 2015, plus 800 more between 2016 to 2023? This 4 times the victims of October 7- and we don't count the blockade and the wrecked economy. > We dont have to be racist to point out that hamas fucking sucks and has done nothing but make life worse for everyone in gaza Yes of course, blame the victims. No, Israel has imprisoned 2 million people inside Gaza for 20 years and periodically bombed them, and this is an unimaginable crime, orders of magnitude worse than Hamas ever did. Frankly, October 7 was horrible but nothing in comparison, plus it was obviously needed to bring the necessary attention to the situation. Fucking sucks, but hey, that's something Israel brought upon itself thanks to its criminal behaviour and the complicity of the West.
- HDThoreaun 1y ago
  What is the point of acting like Hamas has not constantly, from its inception, called for the utter destruction of israel? You are not tricking anyone here, they werent trying to hide it or anything. I agree the palestinians have been horribly oppressed by the Israelis, but sometimes people deserve to be oppressed. Sucks for all the kids born in gaza but its not israels fault their society has called for genocide of jews for like 80 years now. I feel way worse for Palestinians in the west bank than those in gaza. The west bankers truly got fucked by israel, the gazans largely deserve what they got. You dont get to constantly launch rockets at their biggest city and then claim you want peace.
  - throw310822 1y ago
    > What is the point of acting like Hamas has not constantly, from its inception, called for the utter destruction of israel? What is the point of acting like Israel doesn't have the means of wiping Hamas 100 times over? You know, even if you don't like the goals of Hamas (which is not monolithic, it has even accepted Palestine in the 1967 borders, offered 10-year truces, etc)- if you give people what is fair, and cooperate, and let them have a life with hopes and future- you will get peace in return- with or without Hamas. And the bottom off this idea of "Hamas wants to destroy Israel" there is always the idea that Palestinians are rabid animals, more interested in destroying the others than in their own happiness. This is stupid and racist. > You dont get to constantly launch rockets at their biggest city and then claim you want peace. Well, you don't get to take someone's land, enforce apartheid, close 2 million people in a cage and claim you want peace either. You take the rockets, ffs, in fact you deserve much bigger ones.
    - HDThoreaun 1y ago
      > Well, you don't get to take someone's land, enforce apartheid, close 2 million people in a cage and claim you want peace either. The palestinains started pretty much every war. Israel won them. If the palestinians didnt want to be stuck in gaza they shouldnt have started and lost all those wars. Now they have to live with the consequences. To be clear I dont think gazans are wrong for being pissed about their situation. I do think theyre wrong for doing absolutely nothing to improve it though. I think theyre wrong for starting wars they cant win and then complaining when they dont win them. > the idea that Palestinians are rabid animals, more interested in destroying the others than in their own happiness. Maybe if they stopped devoting all their resources to destroying israel and invested in themselves people wouldnt think this(to be clear I dont, although I do think Hamas leadership largely does thinks this). The bottom of the idea that hamas wants to destroy israel is hamas, repeatedly saying they want to destroy israel. Why shouldnt I trust what they constantly say? > What is the point of acting like Israel doesn't have the means of wiping Hamas 100 times over? Who is acting like this? Israel shown restraint which hamas has never done. You are right, they could kill every single person in gaza quite easily, they dont want to. The same cant be said for hamas and how they feel about israelis. > Well, you don't get to take someone's land, enforce apartheid, close 2 million people in a cage and claim you want peace either. Why not? Why should Israel, with the power to wipe palestine off the map, settle for anything less? The problem with hamas launching rockets is that they cant back it up when israel correctly sees that as a declaration of war. > You take the rockets, ffs, in fact you deserve much bigger ones. And this mentality is why the israelis have decided a genocide is their best option
cholantesh 1y ago
>They use human shields Israel's definition of human shields is placing military infrastructure adjacent to civilian infrastructure. Literally no international body agrees with this, but ignoring that, the IDF is itself guilty of this because many of its installations, including Hakirya, are surrounded by residential buildings. The Lehi also fired rockets from and cached ammo within schools and synagogues - this is commemorated by plaques in the affected buildings. There is also copious video evidence of them taking human shields by the much narrower, much more widely accepted definition of human shielding wherein civilians are coerced into entering combat zones under the thread of violence.
- HDThoreaun 1y ago
  1. The israeli government sucks 2. The IDF doesnt need to use human shields because hamas/iran dont have accurate missles. Even if the IDF did operate out of apartment buildings like hamas it wouldnt be evidence that the gov doesnt care about the populace because their enemies cant hit them anyway Seriously, how many israeli civilians have been killed by military strikes aimed at legitimate targets?
  - cholantesh 1y ago
    >The IDF doesn't need to human shields And yet they still do, by their own definition and the one that is actually in wide use. >Seriously, how many israeli civilians have been killed by military strikes aimed at legitimate targets? Far fewer than the number of Palestinians killed by the IDF 'mistakenly' turning a hospital to rubble with journalists in the vicinity. What are you even trying to argue?
    - HDThoreaun 1y ago
      < What are you even trying to argue? The israeli govenrment is far less cavalier with their civilians lives than hamas is. As you pointed out they are not just sticking them in the line of fire like hamas is

throw310822 1y ago

> Because having their own state isnt their goal, the destruction of zionism is Oh of course, these are not people- they don't want their own good, they want to destroy others. Is this what you mean? > israel was content to let the palestinians chill until oct 7th while hamas spent the previous two decades bombarding tel aviv You obviously don't know that Israel bombarded Gaza killing 1800 people in 2008/9, 430 people between 2010 and 2104, 2270 people in 2015, plus 800 more between 2016 to 2023? This 4 times the victims of October 7- and we don't count the blockade and the wrecked economy. > We dont have to be racist to point out that hamas fucking sucks and has done nothing but make life worse for everyone in gaza Yes of course, blame the victims. No, Israel has imprisoned 2 million people inside Gaza for 20 years and periodically bombed them, and this is an unimaginable crime, orders of magnitude worse than Hamas ever did. Frankly, October 7 was horrible but nothing in comparison, plus it was obviously needed to bring the necessary attention to the situation. Fucking sucks, but hey, that's something Israel brought upon itself thanks to its criminal behaviour and the complicity of the West.

HDThoreaun 1y ago
What is the point of acting like Hamas has not constantly, from its inception, called for the utter destruction of israel? You are not tricking anyone here, they werent trying to hide it or anything. I agree the palestinians have been horribly oppressed by the Israelis, but sometimes people deserve to be oppressed. Sucks for all the kids born in gaza but its not israels fault their society has called for genocide of jews for like 80 years now. I feel way worse for Palestinians in the west bank than those in gaza. The west bankers truly got fucked by israel, the gazans largely deserve what they got. You dont get to constantly launch rockets at their biggest city and then claim you want peace.
- throw310822 1y ago
  > What is the point of acting like Hamas has not constantly, from its inception, called for the utter destruction of israel? What is the point of acting like Israel doesn't have the means of wiping Hamas 100 times over? You know, even if you don't like the goals of Hamas (which is not monolithic, it has even accepted Palestine in the 1967 borders, offered 10-year truces, etc)- if you give people what is fair, and cooperate, and let them have a life with hopes and future- you will get peace in return- with or without Hamas. And the bottom off this idea of "Hamas wants to destroy Israel" there is always the idea that Palestinians are rabid animals, more interested in destroying the others than in their own happiness. This is stupid and racist. > You dont get to constantly launch rockets at their biggest city and then claim you want peace. Well, you don't get to take someone's land, enforce apartheid, close 2 million people in a cage and claim you want peace either. You take the rockets, ffs, in fact you deserve much bigger ones.
  - HDThoreaun 1y ago
    > Well, you don't get to take someone's land, enforce apartheid, close 2 million people in a cage and claim you want peace either. The palestinains started pretty much every war. Israel won them. If the palestinians didnt want to be stuck in gaza they shouldnt have started and lost all those wars. Now they have to live with the consequences. To be clear I dont think gazans are wrong for being pissed about their situation. I do think theyre wrong for doing absolutely nothing to improve it though. I think theyre wrong for starting wars they cant win and then complaining when they dont win them. > the idea that Palestinians are rabid animals, more interested in destroying the others than in their own happiness. Maybe if they stopped devoting all their resources to destroying israel and invested in themselves people wouldnt think this(to be clear I dont, although I do think Hamas leadership largely does thinks this). The bottom of the idea that hamas wants to destroy israel is hamas, repeatedly saying they want to destroy israel. Why shouldnt I trust what they constantly say? > What is the point of acting like Israel doesn't have the means of wiping Hamas 100 times over? Who is acting like this? Israel shown restraint which hamas has never done. You are right, they could kill every single person in gaza quite easily, they dont want to. The same cant be said for hamas and how they feel about israelis. > Well, you don't get to take someone's land, enforce apartheid, close 2 million people in a cage and claim you want peace either. Why not? Why should Israel, with the power to wipe palestine off the map, settle for anything less? The problem with hamas launching rockets is that they cant back it up when israel correctly sees that as a declaration of war. > You take the rockets, ffs, in fact you deserve much bigger ones. And this mentality is why the israelis have decided a genocide is their best option

cholantesh 1y ago

>They use human shields Israel's definition of human shields is placing military infrastructure adjacent to civilian infrastructure. Literally no international body agrees with this, but ignoring that, the IDF is itself guilty of this because many of its installations, including Hakirya, are surrounded by residential buildings. The Lehi also fired rockets from and cached ammo within schools and synagogues - this is commemorated by plaques in the affected buildings. There is also copious video evidence of them taking human shields by the much narrower, much more widely accepted definition of human shielding wherein civilians are coerced into entering combat zones under the thread of violence.

HDThoreaun 1y ago
1. The israeli government sucks 2. The IDF doesnt need to use human shields because hamas/iran dont have accurate missles. Even if the IDF did operate out of apartment buildings like hamas it wouldnt be evidence that the gov doesnt care about the populace because their enemies cant hit them anyway Seriously, how many israeli civilians have been killed by military strikes aimed at legitimate targets?
- cholantesh 1y ago
  >The IDF doesn't need to human shields And yet they still do, by their own definition and the one that is actually in wide use. >Seriously, how many israeli civilians have been killed by military strikes aimed at legitimate targets? Far fewer than the number of Palestinians killed by the IDF 'mistakenly' turning a hospital to rubble with journalists in the vicinity. What are you even trying to argue?
  - HDThoreaun 1y ago
    < What are you even trying to argue? The israeli govenrment is far less cavalier with their civilians lives than hamas is. As you pointed out they are not just sticking them in the line of fire like hamas is