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I like this sort of study/theory that imparts practical, actionable tips on how to reduce problems in one's life. Been on a driving safety kick lately. There's

I like this sort of study/theory that imparts practical, actionable tips on how to reduce problems in one's life. Been on a driving safety kick lately. There's lots of alpha on the table. My most important rules for myself: minimize driving, avoid rush hours.

IncreasePosts 1y ago
Wouldn't rush hour be safer since the average speed is much lower?
- throwaway173738 1y ago
  The increased traffic density changes people’s behavior in a really significant way.
- CWuestefeld 1y ago
  No. The trope that faster speeds are more dangerous is at least misleading, and possibly outright false. It's certainly true that a given accident would be more severe if speeds are higher. That's just physics. However, in at least some circumstances, accidents are more likely to occur at slower speeds. In your example, rush hour has both more accidents and slower speeds. But also, there's a well-documented effect of a "risk thermostat", where people tend to balance risk such that they exhibit less care when other things would be making things safer. Thus, when speeds are slower, people perceive greater safety and are (maybe subconsciously) more willing to engage in offsetting risks such as playing with their phones or just daydreaming, just because they can. The result is that slower speeds can lead to a greater quantity of accidents (even if those accidents are of lower severity because they were slower). What remains to be proven is how those two effects offset each other. It's not clear whether the "greater severity" or "more accidents" effect dominates the overall picture.
- analog31 1y ago
  I wonder if reaction time is a factor. Driving in congested traffic, I've noticed that it's difficult or even impossible to maintain what we were all taught was a safe following distance. As a result, the drivers are not in complete control of their cars. For instance if someone stops suddenly in front of them, they crash.
Spooky23 1y ago
People signal some of this stuff with vehicle and “aesthetic” choice as well. It’s sort of the human equivalent of a dog marking a tree.
- nradov 1y ago
  There are plenty of signals. For example, Nissan is notorious for being willing to finance "credit criminals" whom other brands won't touch. And while not everyone with a low credit score is also an unsafe driver, the correlation is pretty strong.
  - toast0 1y ago
    I'd imagine most of the worst credit people are buying from buy here, pay here lots. Those lots have all sorts of cars, so I dunno why there would be a brand trend, other than towards lower priced vehicles.
    - Spooky23 1y ago
      Often they have the license plate brackets that identify them. Even then, there’s cars that hit the sweet spot. The Nissan Altima and Dodge Charger are practically meme cars. There’s other metrics as well - sticker density on pickup trucks, the cheapest BMW, etc. It’s not about shaming poor people, it’s early identification of recklessness and bad driving.
  - Lyngbakr 1y ago
    I find drivers of nonwork pickup trucks to be particularly aggressive on the road.
  - sellmesoap 1y ago
    I also associate this with Chrysler/Dodge brands, unreliable cars with a higher then usual number of hotheads behind the wheel. I've seen shady finance stuff from a dealer around here, making numbers work for people who in no way can sustain payments (and later had the car repoed) it's all insured so the dealer laughs all the way... with the bank!?!
hungmung 1y ago
Drivers on their phones scare the living shit out of me. I've driven across America way too many times, and there are a lot of people on the interstate that are texting or just browsing the internet while they drive at full speed. My partner riding shotgun would count them but it became somewhat impractical after a while. There's a trope in my head now of teens/young-20's driving fucked up Altimas going 90mph+ down the interstate with their eyes down on their phones and not looking at what's in front of them at all. I'm honestly surprised I haven't seen one rear end a semi ala Jayne Mansfield by now, which is apparently becoming not uncommon. Edit: forgot to add. I was one of the first vehicles to the scene of somebody who plowed head-on into a boulder while driving about 60mph. Killed 4 people. I was able to find the police report later and it turns out the driver was updating her Instagram in the moments leading up to the crash. That sort of thing leaves an impression on you when you see it first hand.
- hyperliner 1y ago
  [dead]
- ToucanLoucan 1y ago
  There's a subreddit called "NissanDrivers" that studies and proliferates the notion that drivers of Nissan's are uniquely bad, regardless of age, citing numerous data points. Namely: * It's common to see Nissans in the wild with body damage * It's culturally known or at least assumed that Nissan will finance a vehicle for basically anyone, no matter how bad their credit is * Nissans regularly engage in aggressive driver behaviors and driving patterns Why it is so many problematic drivers are attracted to Nissans (and other "budget" brands, like Kia and Hyundai which also feature regularly on the sub) seems to come down largely to... well, people who make good choices in life don't generally sign an 84-month loan that will end with them having spent $70,000 on a car that costed $27,000. There's an air of classism to the entire thing, however it's difficult to disagree with based on what's shown. Obviously that's all extremely prone to confirmation bias and all manner of prejudices so to be clear, I'm not saying I agree, I'm just saying it's interesting how Nissan as a brand is so widely associated with poor people who allegedly make bad decisions, financial, and in their driving. It's also worth noting (and probably what's anchoring this impression is) that Nissans are, in spite of their awful financing, cheap. As are Kias and Hyandais, so more people own them at scale, and therefore more bad drivers also own them at scale. Once the narrative is in the wild, there's little that will arrest it from being "confirmed" by people and passed along as understood fact. They also have a ton of bumper stickers, too.

IncreasePosts 1y ago

Wouldn't rush hour be safer since the average speed is much lower?

throwaway173738 1y ago
The increased traffic density changes people’s behavior in a really significant way.
CWuestefeld 1y ago
No. The trope that faster speeds are more dangerous is at least misleading, and possibly outright false. It's certainly true that a given accident would be more severe if speeds are higher. That's just physics. However, in at least some circumstances, accidents are more likely to occur at slower speeds. In your example, rush hour has both more accidents and slower speeds. But also, there's a well-documented effect of a "risk thermostat", where people tend to balance risk such that they exhibit less care when other things would be making things safer. Thus, when speeds are slower, people perceive greater safety and are (maybe subconsciously) more willing to engage in offsetting risks such as playing with their phones or just daydreaming, just because they can. The result is that slower speeds can lead to a greater quantity of accidents (even if those accidents are of lower severity because they were slower). What remains to be proven is how those two effects offset each other. It's not clear whether the "greater severity" or "more accidents" effect dominates the overall picture.
analog31 1y ago
I wonder if reaction time is a factor. Driving in congested traffic, I've noticed that it's difficult or even impossible to maintain what we were all taught was a safe following distance. As a result, the drivers are not in complete control of their cars. For instance if someone stops suddenly in front of them, they crash.

Spooky23 1y ago

People signal some of this stuff with vehicle and “aesthetic” choice as well. It’s sort of the human equivalent of a dog marking a tree.

nradov 1y ago
There are plenty of signals. For example, Nissan is notorious for being willing to finance "credit criminals" whom other brands won't touch. And while not everyone with a low credit score is also an unsafe driver, the correlation is pretty strong.
- toast0 1y ago
  I'd imagine most of the worst credit people are buying from buy here, pay here lots. Those lots have all sorts of cars, so I dunno why there would be a brand trend, other than towards lower priced vehicles.
  - Spooky23 1y ago
    Often they have the license plate brackets that identify them. Even then, there’s cars that hit the sweet spot. The Nissan Altima and Dodge Charger are practically meme cars. There’s other metrics as well - sticker density on pickup trucks, the cheapest BMW, etc. It’s not about shaming poor people, it’s early identification of recklessness and bad driving.
- Lyngbakr 1y ago
  I find drivers of nonwork pickup trucks to be particularly aggressive on the road.
- sellmesoap 1y ago
  I also associate this with Chrysler/Dodge brands, unreliable cars with a higher then usual number of hotheads behind the wheel. I've seen shady finance stuff from a dealer around here, making numbers work for people who in no way can sustain payments (and later had the car repoed) it's all insured so the dealer laughs all the way... with the bank!?!

hungmung 1y ago

Drivers on their phones scare the living shit out of me. I've driven across America way too many times, and there are a lot of people on the interstate that are texting or just browsing the internet while they drive at full speed. My partner riding shotgun would count them but it became somewhat impractical after a while. There's a trope in my head now of teens/young-20's driving fucked up Altimas going 90mph+ down the interstate with their eyes down on their phones and not looking at what's in front of them at all. I'm honestly surprised I haven't seen one rear end a semi ala Jayne Mansfield by now, which is apparently becoming not uncommon. Edit: forgot to add. I was one of the first vehicles to the scene of somebody who plowed head-on into a boulder while driving about 60mph. Killed 4 people. I was able to find the police report later and it turns out the driver was updating her Instagram in the moments leading up to the crash. That sort of thing leaves an impression on you when you see it first hand.

hyperliner 1y ago
[dead]
ToucanLoucan 1y ago
There's a subreddit called "NissanDrivers" that studies and proliferates the notion that drivers of Nissan's are uniquely bad, regardless of age, citing numerous data points. Namely: * It's common to see Nissans in the wild with body damage * It's culturally known or at least assumed that Nissan will finance a vehicle for basically anyone, no matter how bad their credit is * Nissans regularly engage in aggressive driver behaviors and driving patterns Why it is so many problematic drivers are attracted to Nissans (and other "budget" brands, like Kia and Hyundai which also feature regularly on the sub) seems to come down largely to... well, people who make good choices in life don't generally sign an 84-month loan that will end with them having spent $70,000 on a car that costed $27,000. There's an air of classism to the entire thing, however it's difficult to disagree with based on what's shown. Obviously that's all extremely prone to confirmation bias and all manner of prejudices so to be clear, I'm not saying I agree, I'm just saying it's interesting how Nissan as a brand is so widely associated with poor people who allegedly make bad decisions, financial, and in their driving. It's also worth noting (and probably what's anchoring this impression is) that Nissans are, in spite of their awful financing, cheap. As are Kias and Hyandais, so more people own them at scale, and therefore more bad drivers also own them at scale. Once the narrative is in the wild, there's little that will arrest it from being "confirmed" by people and passed along as understood fact. They also have a ton of bumper stickers, too.