6 ms·

That is a great analogy. There are countries where a police can throw you into a lifetime jail with zero option for justice unless you are a famous person from

That is a great analogy. There are countries where a police can throw you into a lifetime jail with zero option for justice unless you are a famous person from a well known western country. Those countries are North Korea, Iran, Russia, Google and Apple.

mothballed 1y ago
Well the US can do it with CBP/ICE, but not for life. I was placed in a jail without being arrested or being accused of a crime and they were very clear at all times I was not even arrested, nor did a federal criminal history search show any record of arrest. No access to lawyer either. US Citizen. Contacted lawyers, all informed me they'd given up trying to sue for these things because it's hopeless.
- baq 1y ago
  Founding fathers rolling in their graves.
- shawabawa3 1y ago
  how long were you in jail? How did you get out?
  - mothballed 1y ago
    ~12 hours in jail, a few hours shackled in prisoner transport vans, and then ~12 hours in cuffs at a couple different hospitals hospital (where I was touched by health care professionals without my consent and without a warrant) while they waited for signs of non-existent "drugs." Shortly before I was released they served me retroactive search warrant, signed by a judge after it happened, using made-up PC that did not even state the name of the person or animal they claim prompted it. I was released after an HSI guy showed up, took a quick look at me, decided I wasn't a terrorist or whatever, served me the retroactive warrant, and then I was sent on a prisoner transport van to be dumped at the border with my all my shit (including my shoelaces) in a plastic bag. For the hospital part I was sent a ~$1k bill, which is still in collections.
    - dingnuts 1y ago
      if you're telling a real story and not just AI generating bullshit for karma you should go to the PRESS. this story, if it's real, should be something the press would eat up. screw the lawyers. go public and name names
      - deleted 1y ago
        [deleted]
      - mothballed 1y ago
        The press did an almost identical story for Ashley Cervantes, who had almost the same thing happen, except she was digitally (finger) raped by doctors as part of the process and was a young barely adult ~poor woman vulnerable minority so way way more public sympathy for her vs me (I'm a middle class white native English speaking boring white boy with a hick accent so basically at the bottom of the interest at ACLU, they do occasionally feature some people that have had it happen if they have sympathetic backgrounds). Nothing changed. Same port of entry, same hospital network, same everything (I don't think she was jailed like me though). Lawsuit failed and public press did nothing. Later the ACLU won some kind of suit that forced all involved parties to be warned, which they promptly ignored, and that was the end of it. https://www.southernborder.org/woman-suing-border-patrol-over-cavity-search https://www.southernborder.org/woman-suing-border-patrol-ove... https://www.kgun9.com/news/local-news/woman-sues-cbp-over-body-cavity-search https://www.kgun9.com/news/local-news/woman-sues-cbp-over-bo...
        philipallstar 1y ago
        > I'm a middle class white native English speaking boring white boy with a hick accent so basically at the bottom of the interest at ACLU This in itself should be shocking to us
        FuriouslyAdrift 1y ago
        I looked at the final motion to dismiss document and boy did she get bad legal advice. The lawyer tried a Bivens case against the hospital... which any lawyer will tell you is an impossibility. Bivens cases are just about impossible to win under any circumstances, but trying to do a Bivens against a non-federal officer is a guaranteed loss. To have won this case against the agents would have required piercing qualified immunity which is very tough (you have to prove intentional misconduct... just being incompetent isn't enough in most cases). She would have been better off pursuing a medical malpractice case against the hospital and/or doctor to be able to get any kind of relief.
- hungmung 1y ago
  Assuming what you're saying is true, this is the kind of thing 2A was written for. I don't mean for you personally, but for society it's really the last line of defense against a rogue government. But, even if your story is totally made up it's completely believable. Scary times.
  - novok 1y ago
    Not if the supreme court wouldn't enforce it!
    - FuriouslyAdrift 1y ago
      The Supreme Court does not enforce laws.
  - bdangubic 1y ago
    2A might have been written hundreds of years ago but it is now an instrument to sell guns. no amount of guns you buy will help you against rogue government
    - hungmung 1y ago
      Hard disagree. Guerilla resistance has proven itself surprisingly effective against modern militaries. Multiply that by a military which would be going to war against its own citizens and you have a very uncertain situation. Yes, if the military was targeting you individually you'd almost certainly be fucked. But a guerilla resistance spread out over a continent would be very difficult to eradicate. Just look at Afghanistan.
      - petre 1y ago
        I think there are enough stories of armed religious groups raided by three letter agencies to prove otherwise. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waco_siege https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waco_siege
        1y ago
- abtinf 1y ago
  You should contact IJ. They recently took up a case like this. https://ij.org/press-release/us-citizen-and-army-veteran-submits-claims-for-unconstitutional-immigration-detention/ https://ij.org/press-release/us-citizen-and-army-veteran-sub...
  - mothballed 1y ago
    Looks like the statute of limitations has ran out. I typed up a ~100 page document with very thorough records of the retroactive warrant, what happened, and medical records to try and hold at least the "medical care providers" accountable but the board determined that the medical care providers were performing a (warrantless) law enforcement search and not medical care so their license wasn't in jeapordy. Not sure how they determined this since they were in no way deputized nor were they employed by the government, and in fact I was personally being billed for it. The CBP argued the opposite, that medical care was rendered and not a search so CBP was not liable for extending the ~12 hours during which they "detained" me with no evidence. CBP argued they held me for my own safety because I could die of non-existent drugs. The challenges to this have all failed (see Ashley Cervantes, basically identical legal facts) so it seems the courts are pretty satisfied with the catch-22 of any challenges of the criminal aspect to be ruled as medical care (thus unchallengables) and then any challenge of the medical care to be ruled as a detainment for a criminal search (thus unchallengable).
vkou 1y ago
The US has done just that to Abrego Garcia, and is now giving him the choice between confessing to a crime that he hasn't been convicted of (and likely didn't commit) and deportation to a country he has never been in.
- evanjrowley 1y ago
  Abrego Garcia has attorneys working his case through the US justice system. That is a key factor that the other entities lack.
  - vkou 1y ago
    He has already been illegally disappeared to El Salvador, despite theoretically having access to a lawyer. It took a national story for him to be brought back, only to get threatened by the exact same thing. Lawyers only matter if the people with the guns think they should be bound by the law.
einpoklum 1y ago
First of all - add Israel. If you're a Gazan than this goes without saying, but even if you're a citizen, then - the General Security Service can and does people into custody without a warrant; often does not publicly disclose or admit said custody; and has "secret" detention facilities to hold such people (example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camp_1391 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camp_1391) I also wonder about the US: What about the secret imprisonment mechanisms it set up after the 2001 attacks on the twin towers (9/11)? Were those ever dis-established?

mothballed 1y ago

Well the US can do it with CBP/ICE, but not for life. I was placed in a jail without being arrested or being accused of a crime and they were very clear at all times I was not even arrested, nor did a federal criminal history search show any record of arrest. No access to lawyer either. US Citizen. Contacted lawyers, all informed me they'd given up trying to sue for these things because it's hopeless.

baq 1y ago
Founding fathers rolling in their graves.
shawabawa3 1y ago
how long were you in jail? How did you get out?
- mothballed 1y ago
  ~12 hours in jail, a few hours shackled in prisoner transport vans, and then ~12 hours in cuffs at a couple different hospitals hospital (where I was touched by health care professionals without my consent and without a warrant) while they waited for signs of non-existent "drugs." Shortly before I was released they served me retroactive search warrant, signed by a judge after it happened, using made-up PC that did not even state the name of the person or animal they claim prompted it. I was released after an HSI guy showed up, took a quick look at me, decided I wasn't a terrorist or whatever, served me the retroactive warrant, and then I was sent on a prisoner transport van to be dumped at the border with my all my shit (including my shoelaces) in a plastic bag. For the hospital part I was sent a ~$1k bill, which is still in collections.
  - dingnuts 1y ago
    if you're telling a real story and not just AI generating bullshit for karma you should go to the PRESS. this story, if it's real, should be something the press would eat up. screw the lawyers. go public and name names
    - deleted 1y ago
      [deleted]
    - mothballed 1y ago
      The press did an almost identical story for Ashley Cervantes, who had almost the same thing happen, except she was digitally (finger) raped by doctors as part of the process and was a young barely adult ~poor woman vulnerable minority so way way more public sympathy for her vs me (I'm a middle class white native English speaking boring white boy with a hick accent so basically at the bottom of the interest at ACLU, they do occasionally feature some people that have had it happen if they have sympathetic backgrounds). Nothing changed. Same port of entry, same hospital network, same everything (I don't think she was jailed like me though). Lawsuit failed and public press did nothing. Later the ACLU won some kind of suit that forced all involved parties to be warned, which they promptly ignored, and that was the end of it. https://www.southernborder.org/woman-suing-border-patrol-over-cavity-search https://www.southernborder.org/woman-suing-border-patrol-ove... https://www.kgun9.com/news/local-news/woman-sues-cbp-over-body-cavity-search https://www.kgun9.com/news/local-news/woman-sues-cbp-over-bo...
      - philipallstar 1y ago
        > I'm a middle class white native English speaking boring white boy with a hick accent so basically at the bottom of the interest at ACLU This in itself should be shocking to us
      - FuriouslyAdrift 1y ago
        I looked at the final motion to dismiss document and boy did she get bad legal advice. The lawyer tried a Bivens case against the hospital... which any lawyer will tell you is an impossibility. Bivens cases are just about impossible to win under any circumstances, but trying to do a Bivens against a non-federal officer is a guaranteed loss. To have won this case against the agents would have required piercing qualified immunity which is very tough (you have to prove intentional misconduct... just being incompetent isn't enough in most cases). She would have been better off pursuing a medical malpractice case against the hospital and/or doctor to be able to get any kind of relief.
hungmung 1y ago
Assuming what you're saying is true, this is the kind of thing 2A was written for. I don't mean for you personally, but for society it's really the last line of defense against a rogue government. But, even if your story is totally made up it's completely believable. Scary times.
- novok 1y ago
  Not if the supreme court wouldn't enforce it!
  - FuriouslyAdrift 1y ago
    The Supreme Court does not enforce laws.
- bdangubic 1y ago
  2A might have been written hundreds of years ago but it is now an instrument to sell guns. no amount of guns you buy will help you against rogue government
  - hungmung 1y ago
    Hard disagree. Guerilla resistance has proven itself surprisingly effective against modern militaries. Multiply that by a military which would be going to war against its own citizens and you have a very uncertain situation. Yes, if the military was targeting you individually you'd almost certainly be fucked. But a guerilla resistance spread out over a continent would be very difficult to eradicate. Just look at Afghanistan.
    - petre 1y ago
      I think there are enough stories of armed religious groups raided by three letter agencies to prove otherwise. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waco_siege https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waco_siege
      - 1y ago
abtinf 1y ago
You should contact IJ. They recently took up a case like this. https://ij.org/press-release/us-citizen-and-army-veteran-submits-claims-for-unconstitutional-immigration-detention/ https://ij.org/press-release/us-citizen-and-army-veteran-sub...
- mothballed 1y ago
  Looks like the statute of limitations has ran out. I typed up a ~100 page document with very thorough records of the retroactive warrant, what happened, and medical records to try and hold at least the "medical care providers" accountable but the board determined that the medical care providers were performing a (warrantless) law enforcement search and not medical care so their license wasn't in jeapordy. Not sure how they determined this since they were in no way deputized nor were they employed by the government, and in fact I was personally being billed for it. The CBP argued the opposite, that medical care was rendered and not a search so CBP was not liable for extending the ~12 hours during which they "detained" me with no evidence. CBP argued they held me for my own safety because I could die of non-existent drugs. The challenges to this have all failed (see Ashley Cervantes, basically identical legal facts) so it seems the courts are pretty satisfied with the catch-22 of any challenges of the criminal aspect to be ruled as medical care (thus unchallengables) and then any challenge of the medical care to be ruled as a detainment for a criminal search (thus unchallengable).

vkou 1y ago

The US has done just that to Abrego Garcia, and is now giving him the choice between confessing to a crime that he hasn't been convicted of (and likely didn't commit) and deportation to a country he has never been in.

evanjrowley 1y ago
Abrego Garcia has attorneys working his case through the US justice system. That is a key factor that the other entities lack.
- vkou 1y ago
  He has already been illegally disappeared to El Salvador, despite theoretically having access to a lawyer. It took a national story for him to be brought back, only to get threatened by the exact same thing. Lawyers only matter if the people with the guns think they should be bound by the law.

einpoklum 1y ago

First of all - add Israel. If you're a Gazan than this goes without saying, but even if you're a citizen, then - the General Security Service can and does people into custody without a warrant; often does not publicly disclose or admit said custody; and has "secret" detention facilities to hold such people (example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camp_1391 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camp_1391) I also wonder about the US: What about the secret imprisonment mechanisms it set up after the 2001 attacks on the twin towers (9/11)? Were those ever dis-established?